R2

Opulences and nature of the Lord

0:03I'm very glad to see you at last. So this is, uh, his name is Bernard. And he, uh, he, he, he was the... he lived in our temple in Edinburgh. He lived in our temple in Edinburgh last summer.

0:23He was the treasurer there for a while. Before that he was twenty-three years... One side of that bed? Five nights. Before that he was twenty, twenty-three years, right? In a Cistercian Catholic monastery.

0:40He... they kept silence. They're vegetarian, and he worked there in the monastery, agricultural work for 23 years.

0:52And somehow or other he left there, and shortly after he left he joined with us last summer, and he went away again. He was staying in Leeds for a while.

1:01Now he has some trouble with his legs, so he's left his job there, and but he's uh, visiting us. Osteomyelitis, brother. No, what is it? Disease of the bone. And they've drilled it five times. Oh.

1:17No, it just came four years ago. And I did due to rheumatism.

1:22I have to be very careful, rheumatism comes into it; in damp weather it's... I sort of sit and pitch it because it goes into cramp, you know, and I have to keep moving it. But it's not true.

1:32So if you feel inclined, give him a chair. No. No, thank you. No. Also he's, uh, uh, his... he was raised on a farm in Ireland and he's expert in taking care of cows.

1:50So I... maybe he's come just today along with the cows, so perhaps maybe something there. As you see, Lord Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa also tends cows. Surabhī-pālayantam. Kṛṣṇa's description in the Brahma-saṁhitā is there.

2:16Cintāmaṇi-prakara-sadmasu kalpa-vṛkṣa-lakṣāvṛteṣu surabhīr abhipālayantam. Surabhī cows. Kṛṣṇa is very fond of cows. Abhipālayantam. Tending the cows.

2:37Surabhīr abhipālayantam. Lakṣmī-sahasra-śata- sambhrama-sevyamānam. And he is served by many thousands of goddesses of fortune, the gopīs, Lakṣmī. Lakṣmī means goddess of what? Lakṣmī-sahasra-śata. Sahasra means thousand.

3:10And śata, hundred. That means many numbers. Lakṣmī- sahasra-śata-sambhrama-sevyamānam. Sambhrama. Sambhrama means with great respect.

3:27Here in this material world, we worship Lakṣmī, goddess of fortune, to get some opulence. And that also does not... that Lakṣmī does not stay very long. Just like this house belongs to some lord family, Lakṣmī.

3:57But now it does not belong to that man. It has... it is transferred to somebody else. That Lakṣmī's another name is Cañcalā, restless. Today the riches are with me, tomorrow with you, next day with him. It doesn't remain.

4:22And another place it is described as just like lightning. Lightning.

4:29In this cloud, immediately this cloud, against this cloud, like this. Cañcalā. This is called cañcalā, restless; does not remain in one place permanently.

4:48But so far Kṛṣṇa is concerned, not only they remain there permanently, but with great respect for Kṛṣṇa. They are always anxious that Kṛṣṇa may not give us up. Lakṣmī- sahasra-śata-sambhrama-sevyamānam.

5:11In this material world, Lakṣmī, goddess of fortune, is worshipped even by Brahmā. And what to speak of ordinary living entities.

5:21But in the spiritual world, Lakṣmī serves the Supreme Personality of Godhead with all respect. There are many such narrations in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. So we accept this Absolute Truth in His personal feature.

5:51What is your understanding of the Absolute Truth? I'm asking you because you are a priest, therefore I'm asking. The Absolute Truth... Yes. But is He a person or not? That's... That's nice. Yes. He is a person.

6:13He is a person, but not a person like us. Oh no. Yes. He is infinite and we are finite. Yes, yes, thank you. Very good. This is the understanding. He has got infinite power of land.

6:31Aiśvaryasya samagrasya vīryasya yaśasaḥ śriyaḥ, jñāna-vairāgyayoś caiva ṣaṇṇāṁ bhaga itīṅganā. Bhagavān. Bhaga. Bhaga means the six kinds of opulences. Yaśasaḥ śriyaḥ. He is the proprietor of all the riches that exist.

6:57Similarly, all strength, all beauty, all reputation, all renouncement, all knowledge. Everything complete. He has nothing lagging. Pūrṇa. Pūrṇam idam.

7:18Pūrṇam adaḥ pūrṇāt pūrṇam udacyate pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya pūrṇam evāvaśiṣyate. He is so perfect and complete, even if the whole thing is taken from Him, hey, it still remains. Never deteriorates. Avyaya, or indestructible.

7:44Unfinishable. This is God. His energies are unfinishable. He is not in want of anything, complete, ātmārāma, complete in Himself. He doesn't require anyone's help. So we see Kṛṣṇa, He does not require our service.

8:17He is complete. But He is so kind that even if we offer our service, very insignificant in its unlimited relationship, still because a devotee offers something in faith and love, He accepts. That is not in want.

8:51This is our basic conception of God, pūrṇa, in all operations, and He is the origin of everything. Because He has got everything: riches, strength, reputation, knowledge, beauty, renouncement, everything.

9:19So he is the store of everything. Complete. And we are fragmental part and parcel of God.

Spiritual cognizance and Vedic science

9:36Therefore, we have got also these opulences. Exactly like the drop of water of the ocean: it has got all the chemical properties of the ocean, but in very minute quantity. It is not lacking all the qualities.

10:02Chemically, we can test a drop of ocean water immediately: salt. So we can understand the ocean is salt.

10:13And if we further analyze chemically the properties, the same properties are there in the ocean, and the same properties are there in the drop, but in very minute quantity. The ocean has got unlimited quantity.

10:34That is the difference. So God, we can understand what is God by studying one living entity. Because the same thing is there; it is only a sample, a small sample.

10:51So, whatever propensities we have got, God must have them, because we are a fragmented portion. So to understand the quality of God is also not very difficult.

11:16Just like a little sample testing, one can understand the whole thing. Similarly, by tasting the propensities of the living entity, one can understand the propensities of God also. But it is unlimited.

11:44But we can understand these things are there in God. So, as we are personal, we have got personal individual purposes. Everyone wants to keep his individuality. So similarly God is also individual, personal.

12:09That's what Bhāgavatam says, that janmādy asya yataḥ: absolute truth is that which is the source of everything. But he is abhijñaḥ, cognizant. Because there are two things we observe: matter and living entities.

12:44Living entities are cognizant. They have knowledge. Matter has no knowledge or not developed knowledge. So God cannot be like matter. He must be like the living being, abhijñaḥ. He knows everything. He knows everything.

13:11And He is situated in everyone's heart. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati. So He is guiding us; we are not accepting His guidance. Therefore you are suffering. This is our position.

13:36Yeah, I've read Bhagavad-gītā. A little bit. And um, I read another book, Nanda Mahārāja. Teachings, that's what I was reading. So why you left our association? What is it, if you could? I don't know.

14:04I think, you know, I just come out of the church and more or less rushed into it. Do you know, and I think it'd have been better if we'd done it steadily, you know.

14:15And it's probably worked out better now this way, you know, over the months, things have slowly come to full realization of it, you know. Well, the plan is you find... What difference you find between church, your church?

Religious principles and moral corruption

14:31Oh, fine. Lots of differences, but lots of the basic teachings are the same, you know, that God is one and He is infinite, we are from... He is like the source of all truth.

14:44And we're just small copies of God, like replicas of God. And He doesn't need us, but we need Him. Yeah, that's right. He can do quite well without us, but we can't live without Him. Yeah.

14:59When you get down to the basics, when you get down to the basics, you know, the two. But it is basics. Basics, yeah. Yeah. So Christianity and our philosophy, we can very well cooperate.

15:20But the only difficulty is, whether you agree also or not, that that, uh, in our opinion, the Christians are not following strictly the Christian doctrines. No, they're broken away.

15:40They're four hundred and something different little branches, and everyone says, "I'm right," and no one knows. And basically, Christian religion, it does not allow killing. Thou shalt not kill. But these people are killing.

15:58Indeed, yes. So if they strictly follow the ten commandments of Lord Jesus Christ, there can be a very good renaissance of the world along with this cooperation with Krishna consciousness.

16:21Combined together, we can change the whole situation of the world. Unfortunately, they do not.

16:30Well, unfortunately, most of the bishops and the hierarchy of the church, I mean, they're in for power. It's a—for of them, it's a good job for a lot of them.

16:37There's lots of money, they've big cars to drive around in, and to them it's more a job than a vocation. I found this a lot with priests myself, you know. Over the last few years I was in charge of a parish here in London.

16:50And I found for lots of them, it was a job. And they were all looking for their day off. They had one day off a week. They were priests for six days and then something else for the other day.

17:00It was just a job and some livings had a better salary than another. They were all looking, you know, to go to the good livings where the money was and the most importance.

17:12But to come down to the Christianity side where they were very good, they could stand up in the pulpit and preach. But probably 50% of them didn't believe what they were preaching. And very few of them lived up to it.

17:23I mean, I had an assistant here in Camden Town when I was parish priest of Camden Town. He was known. I mean, his first port of call was the pub, the Abbey Tavern, for a pint of bitter. Bitter means beer.

17:36It's a kind of beer, and he was well known in there. He'd come in: "What'll you have, Father? Your usual?" And he was my assistant.

17:44And it was probably through him that I first got doubts about the church and got that restless. And it was shortly after that I went up to Edinburgh. I don't know why I went to Edinburgh. I knew no one there.

17:56I just went to Edinburgh. And I met one of the devotees and then lived at the temple. And I think I rushed into it, you know. I knew nothing but just charged in.

18:11And I think I should have waited, you know, to things, instead of being so impulsive. So you try to tell me the same. Oh, more and more I used to talk to him up in Edinburgh. And there's another thing I find very difficult.

18:37Um, to chant japa. Much better, Kiśora told, to watch... He says he's more comfortable chanting japa when he's by himself. Wants to go off somewhere. I can't do it. You can do that. You know what I mean?

18:57The teacher would know that because I was always lost. No. You can chant alone. But this chanting alone is meant for advanced devotees.

19:17Ordinary neophyte devotees, if they're allowed to chant alone, they'll think of so many other things. They cannot concentrate. I find the opposite.

19:31I can't concentrate in a, you know, in a... Therefore, and you find a devotee is advised about preaching. Preaching is very good engagement. He has the opportunity of meeting many people, talking about Krishna.

19:50That is a good opportunity. That is also chanting. Preaching is also chanting. When you talk of Krishna, that you also chant. So those who are not very advanced, they should first of all try to preach. Talk of Krishna.

20:15That is your chant. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ. Kīrtanam means describing, narrating. Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna — this is also kīrtana. And if you describe, just like in the Bhāgavatam, Śukadeva described about Krishna.

20:40That is also chanting. That is accepted as chanting. Śrī-viṣṇoḥ śravaṇe parīkṣit. The word is used, kīrtane. He narrated about Krishna.

20:58Janmādy asya yato 'nvayād itarataś cārtheṣv abhijñaḥ svarāṭ. Describing, describing the Absolute Truth in His various features.

21:19At the end, in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, there are twelve cantos. So nine cantos have been devoted for understanding the impersonal and localized aspect of the absolute Brahman and Paramātmā.

21:51And from the tenth canto onwards they describe about the personal feature. The personal feature is the tenth canto, therefore description of the face by the smile.

22:21First and second canto are considered to be the lotus feet of the Lord. Third and fourth canto this part, fifth canto, thighs, sixth canto, chest.

22:37In this way, nine cantos have been devoted for understanding the impersonal, just like in the beginning the Bhāgavatam describes: janmādy asya yataḥ.

22:57Although in the beginning Vyāsadeva offered his obeisance, oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. But when it describes, he describes impersonally. The absolute truth is that from which everything emanates.

23:26But immediately says: janmādy asya yataḥ, anvayād itarataś ca, artheṣu abhijñaḥ. Directly or indirectly in all subject matter He is abhijñaḥ. Abhijñaḥ means quite conversant. But immediately it becomes personal.

23:57As soon as this word is used, abhijñaḥ, in full knowledge. Then immediately it becomes in the beginning, janmādy asya, the original source of everything. But immediately he begins abhijñaḥ. Not like that.

24:22Abhijñaḥ means cognizant, He knows everything. Just like I claim this is my body, but I am not abhijñaḥ. I do not know all the details of my body.

24:46There are a big machine within my body, the heart, the stomach, how they are acting. Of course, when we study anatomy, physiology, we understand theoretically something, but actually you do not know how it is acting.

25:11We take some solid food and it goes to the stomach and immediately it is divided into so many parts. It becomes digested and there are many secretions, and from that goes to the heart.

25:30It becomes red and then again distributed as blood, then some percent becomes stool, and some percent becomes urine. It's not anything. But we do not know. But it is being done. Every day we have got this experience.

25:54And as soon as there is some misadjustment, immediately we fall sick. Things do not go nicely. All day claiming, "This is my body." So our knowledge is not perfect. We are not abhijña.

26:18But God's creation is so perfect, He knows — every... this word is used: indirectly and directly. Directly, just like we know, we are eating something and there is some metabolic action going on and we are feeling strong.

26:46This is direct, but indirectly how it is being done, we do not... theoretical some knowledge. So it is being done by some inconceivable, we cannot understand it. We cannot explain it.

27:10We explain some theoretically, but not very perfectly, but it is being done. Therefore, it is to be understood that I have got some inner energy which I do not know myself. Sometimes I get perspiration.

27:40How the perspiration is coming, is being manufactured. Sometimes perspiration is so much that if we smear like this, it comes — half an ounce of water. How this water came into existence? But it is factual.

28:05And it is manufactured within my body by some inconceivable energy. Therefore it is to be concluded, I have got some inconceivable energy. You cannot deny it. So I am a little portion of God. I have got inconceivable energy.

28:25How much inconceivable energy is there in stock of the Unlimited? So if I say the whole Pacific Ocean is the perspiration of God, what is wrong there? How you can refute this argument?

28:54Therefore, when we say God created, where is it wrong? How the scientist will explain where from the ocean came into existence? And if I say it has come from the perspiration of God, where is the wrong?

29:15If I am a little portion of God, I can create one ounce of salty water perspiration. And God is unlimited, why He cannot create millions of oceans like this? And he knows how to do it. Okay, you know He knows how to do it.

29:41I do not know. All that is coming. That is the difference between God and me. I'm producing the water, but I don't know how much it rises. He is producing it and he knows the art. So we have to understand God like that.

30:03This science is Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and Bhagavad-gītā. So it is not sectarian. It is science and actually, if the Christian people are serious about God, they should read all this literature. They should not be biased.

30:28Suppose if you are after knowledge, you cannot be biased that I shall stick to this educational institution, not to that. Then you cannot make advance.

30:45Just like sometimes Indian students, they come to your country for higher, advanced knowledge. So everyone goes.

30:57Similarly, if for advanced knowledge and spiritual knowledge, if other people belong to other religion, they come to India or to India's basic culture, where is the harm? Why they should be so biased or prejudiced?

31:19Prejudiced. No, it is knowledge. This cooperation should be done to save the world. Otherwise, it is done. No prejudiced opinion. For knowledge's sake, they should cooperate.

31:45If there is more information in the Vedic culture, and that is a fact everyone admits. Everyone who is actually of knowledge, they admit. So now this prejudice should be given up.

32:07People are deteriorating in their spiritual culture. I've seen in London, nobody goes to churches. There are so many dormant chapters. Why? Yes. Why?

32:23It is a Christian country and so many millions of pounds are spent for constructing the churches, why they should be vacant? Because people are losing interest. And this is not good.

32:39If a human being loses interest in dharma, he becomes animal. Dharmeṇa hīna paśubhiḥ samānāḥ, because the animals have no religion.

32:53So if the human being deteriorates to that position without religion, he is no better than animals. So how can you be happy in the animal societies? That is not possible.

33:07So we should take note of this deterioration, and those who are responsible for guiding people, they must cooperate with this Krishna consciousness movement.

33:21That is all; it is not a sentimental religious movement, it is a science. Everyone should come to understand. If anyone wants really welfare of the human society, of the nation or of the people, whatever you say.

33:50But our propaganda is not to a particular nation or community, but to the human society. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said: bhārata-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra, janma sārthaka kari' kara para-upakāra.

34:13He advises anyone who has taken birth in India, because in India these things are available—not only available, they are made very easy for understanding by the ācāryas. Just like Rāmānujācārya, all big, big ācāryas.

34:34Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu, they have made things easy. The same thing, but the process is made very easy. They say, no requirements. Simply chant Hari. Harer nāma, harer nāma.

34:52This is also quoted from śāstra, not that He has manufactured. This is recommended in śāstra: harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam, kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā.

35:06And Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu is so liberal. He says God is unlimited, so He has got unlimited names also. But the name must be of God.

35:22Just like we have got at least some names of God, some of them, just like Kṛṣṇa, Govinda, Nārāyaṇa, Viṣṇu, Janārdana, Mādhava, mādhurya, like so many names. So Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that you chant the name of God.

35:50Very well. Whichever you like, whichever name. So if you have got a name of God, you can chant that also. What is the name of God in Christian religion? Christian, I suppose Jesus really. Jesus is the Son of God.

36:16Son of God, but in Christianity he is also God. There are three persons in the one God, you see. Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. It's three different persons. They're all the one God. Actually, it's just God.

36:28Now what is the actual name of God in Christianity? Jehovah. Jehovah, that's in the Jewish. That comes in the Old Testament. In the Old Testament. It's the Old Testament, you see.

36:39In the Old Testament the names are Jehovah, the same. Yahweh is another one in the Bible. In the Old Testament. Yahweh, yeah. Jehovah. They're in the Old Testament. Just God. We have no real name, just God. That is the point.

36:56He is just God. I mean, and Jesus is referred to as God. He is one of the persons in the Godhead. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. No.

37:08So they have this Catholic doctrine is that God is one God, but he is simultaneously three persons. Father, who is God, Son, who is Jesus, and Holy Spirit. Holy Ghost, Holy Spirit. What is that?

37:33It's living breath of God which came down from heaven. Living entity. Exactly. Exactly. When Christ departed, he said he would send the Holy Spirit to guide his disciples.

37:47And that Holy Spirit was said to descend upon them forty days later. A time is called Pentecost. And they were to be guided from inside by the Holy Spirit. That Holy Spirit means Paramātmā? That is my understanding.

38:02That it would be Paramātmā. So there we have the conception, Paramātmā also, and God. So what is the position of the living entity? There is some, uh, disagreement. There is no definite...

38:25There is not... there is no... nothing definite really, that is imperfect. You see, when you've gone to that one and you start coming to what we have, what clear concepts. You know that it's just God, really.

38:39But just like I say, I explained, yes, the living entity is a fragmental portion of God. Exactly the drop of ocean water—that is the position of the living entity. Yes, each person is a living entity in God.

39:01And they're fashioned. Everything is involved in the image of God. Each person is made in the image of God.

Devotional service and scriptural authority

39:13Each person means also, each person has a free will. They can accept God or reject Him. It's up to them. God doesn't need them. God, see, God has also got a free will.

39:28Therefore, those made in the image of God, they must also have free will. But mind it. Yes. Dependent on the free will of God. That's right. I wish to do something, but unless it is sanctioned by God, I cannot do it.

39:42This is my vision. Just like I want to start some business, but I have to take a license from the government. I cannot start immediately. I must take sanctions by the government. Then I can.

40:00Similarly, that is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanañ ca. Anu... anumantā... draṣṭā. Sanction is given by God. Paramātmā. We are wanting to do something. The Paramātmā is there within my heart.

40:28Unless He sanctions, I cannot do it. But because I have got little freedom, even if I want to do something against the sanction, He gives sanction, that's all. What can be done?

40:47You are persistent that... that is our, my condition, that is illusion, that we want to do against His sanction. God is unwillingly giving; without His sanction I cannot do. But God is unwillingly giving me sanction.

41:07"Don't do it. You'll suffer." What can I do? I say that, "Don't do this, you will suffer." But if you are insistent, you are insisting repeatedly, then you can do. What can you do? But He's not responsible.

41:25He's not responsible. He is not responsible. He's not his own. He is svayam. Because God says, "If you don't do it, you will suffer." But he persists. No one said, "Do it."

41:38So when he is persistent, God says, "Go, at your risk." Just like there is law, government, the will: "Don't do this." No. But if I do it, it is at my risk. Then you are punishable. This is going on.

42:10That is the position of the materialistic person. They are doing things against the will. Just like it is a clear declaration in the Bible: "Thou shalt not kill." And they are killing against it. Therefore they must suffer.

42:34They must suffer. But they do not understand this simple thing. And still they're declaring, "Christian." What kind of Christian? I do not know. They are doing against the principle of Christian, Christianity.

42:54And they are suffering. And still they are not giving it up. I do not know why the Christian priests also do not teach them that, "Why you are being against the order of not just Bible, against Bible?"

43:12I do not know how that's really... Am I right or not? You're right. But they have different charts, they are paid for. There are so many churches, there are many, so many priestly orders, the Pope is there.

43:39Why they are not stopping this? What is the answer? Lacking knowledge. Willfully neglect. Willfully. Otherwise, Krishna isn't as good as Vaisnavism.

44:04Unfortunately the Catholic Church, you see, more or less ignores the Old Testament. And it's in the Old Testament. He's saying that the Catholic Church ignores the Old Testament, where most of the laws and rules are given.

44:25Why they should be ignored? You see, Christ when he is... If it is actually fact, if it is true, why they should be ignored? Christ himself said, "I did not come to deny the law." Yes. "I came to fulfill the law." Yes.

44:41But they are neglecting the law. That's it. Therefore they show me... And that's the law, right, if you love one another. But not the animals. Then we don't love. We kill them. And Catholic Church, no, yes.

44:58I wouldn't think that... there are not many Catholics who... our definition of saintly person is suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām: he is friend of all living entities. Suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām.

45:16Note that he is friend of the humankind, not of the animal. No. He's not a sādhu. He's not a saintly person. Saintly person, the description is given in this: titikṣavaḥ, kāruṇikāḥ. Very tolerant, because the

45:38world is full of sinful activities and he has to live as a saintly person. So he has to tolerate so many things. They... he'll meet so many opposing enemies. Therefore he has to become tolerant. Titikṣavaḥ.

45:57Kāruṇikāḥ, at the same time, very kind. He has to preach God consciousness. He's kind to everyone. They are suffering without God consciousness. Therefore, toleration and kindness. Titikṣavaḥ kāruṇikāḥ. Oh, why?

46:20They are tolerant and kāruṇikāḥ, suhṛdaḥ sarva-dehinām. He is a friend of all in it. A saintly person will not, uh, cannot see that even a worm is fasting. He must be given food. What to speak of killing?

46:51So they'll argue that Christ was a saintly person and he used to eat fishes. Yes. Or he used to eat meat. It mentions in the Bible.

47:01Christ would sometimes take from the... uh, then why, why he said, "Thou shalt not kill"? That the adjustment will be that when there is no other food, what can be done? There is another...

47:22But when there are so many other foodstuffs, why is it necessary to kill? Just like sometimes in a war field, they use the horses or the dogs, it happens so. Sometimes they eat stool in the last while.

47:41But that does not mean that generally they should eat. When there is no other food... But human life is important. So he has to eat something and there is no other food.

47:59So Christ might have done like this, but that is not his opinion that he should kill and eat. And in another place, I understand that these vegetables are your meat. What is that?

48:14The fruits of the trees and the grains of the earth shall be your food. Yes. That is in the Genesis book of the Old Testament of the Bible.

48:26So that means if you are just... if you have got fruits, you have got grains, why is it we eat meat? Just like we are eating. We are not starving.

48:37So we are eating the grains, the milk, the fruits, the flowers, very palatable dishes, so we are not dying. Come to rationalism. So why unnecessarily you should kill? But they'll say, "You're also killing the vegetables."

48:54That is another thing. But they'll argue like that. But we are killing not for our own purpose. We are killing for Krishna. And it is actually not killing. It is actually not killing.

49:08Because when you take the grains, the plant is already dead. You know that? Yes. Yes. So it is not killing. Now, say, what about the carrots? Huh? That is not killed.

49:23Once it's full, we take the carrot fruit, but the tree is there, it will produce again carrot. They pull them off. Yes, but it's already fully grown. It's dead already when it's fully grown. No, it's still alive.

49:38But... but the thing is that, uh, it is sanctioned. Yes. Krishna says: "patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyam". So we have to pluck it for Krishna, not for me. If there is sin, it is Krishna responsible.

49:56So the proper understanding is that I cannot kill, but if the scripture says you may kill this, then you may kill it for some purpose. That is the scriptural thing. Otherwise, you cannot kill. Otherwise, cannot.

50:10You must get sanction. Just like a man is killed by the order of the High Court judge. Otherwise, he cannot kill. He will be a murderer. When there is an order that this man should be killed, then he can kill.

50:27You are not responsible for murdering. The commander said, "You kill so many other soldiers," you are not responsible. But without that order, if you kill a person, then you are a murderer. Immediately, life for life.

50:45So if there is sanction, that is another thing. But who is sanctioning this slaughterhouse? Where is the sanction? Either in the Bible or in the Old Testament, that keep a slaughterhouse and go on killing?

51:05Oh, we will be responsible for this and will suffer. But these rascals, they are showing knowledge, they're doing that. And nobody's checking them. This is the horrible condition of the society.

51:27There is another command: "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife" or something. Yes. "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife." And so on. And this is going on. This is going on with freedom.

51:38Yes, you can mix with other's wife and polyandry and do everything. So how is it possible? I don't blame the Christian people. The whole world is going like that. So how can they be happy?

51:58They want peace, they want prosperity, they want no war. How is it possible? It is not possible. This message must be brought to us: that you are so sinful, you cannot be happy.

52:17You cannot be happy. Stop the sinful activities. Therefore, our propaganda is: no illicit sex, no meat-eating, no gambling, no intoxication. These four pillars contain all sins.

52:41If you stop this, your sinful life is finished. And in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said: yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ janānāṁ puṇya-karmaṇām, te dvandva-moha-nirmuktā bhajante māṁ dṛḍha-vratāḥ. Yes.

53:12There is a statement in the Bhagavad-gītā: who can become a real devotee of the Lord? That is there. Translation? No, read the last.

53:33Yes. Yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ janānāṁ puṇya-karmaṇām, te dvandva- moha-nirmuktā bhajante māṁ dṛḍha-vratāḥ. "Persons who have acted piously in previous lives and in this life, whose sinful actions are completely eradicated, and who are freed from the duality of delusion, engage themselves in My service with determination."

53:57Listen. So those who are engaged in sinful activity, they cannot become a devotee. And without being a devotee, nobody can understand what is God. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ. Find out this: bhaktyā.

54:23One can understand God by being purified and being engaged in devotional service. Then He becomes revealed. Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ. God is revealed. It is not a calculation. "Here is God."

54:40Make it a calculation. He reveals. Yes. Now you can see. It is not by mathematical calculation. What is that? Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ / tato māṁ tattvato jñātvā, viśate tad-anantaram.

55:06One can understand the Supreme Personality as He is only by devotional service. And when one is in full consciousness of the Supreme Lord by such devotion, he can enter into the kingdom of God.

55:21First one has to become sinless. Then he can understand. He can engage himself in devotional service.

55:29And when he engages himself in devotional service, then he understands what is God, then he's admitted in the spiritual kingdom. Simple. Not that by force, Sputnik, we can enter in the kingdom of God. There is no force.

55:48We must be qualified. So we are preaching this science of God. It is not a sectarian religion. "I believe in this, I believe in that." But it is a science. You may believe or not believe. The science is science.

56:15Fact is fact. So many times, when I was growing up, I was trained in the Catholic Sunday school catechism class, and they used to teach us something about God, about the soul and like that.

56:33And I would try to understand it. I was attracted. But there were so many things that I was told that I had to accept as a mystery.

56:44Just like, for example, that the Father is there and the Son is there, but they are both one person. I would say, "How is that? How is the Son and the Father both one person?" I couldn't understand. But you couldn't explain.

57:01No. And then when you ask, "That is a mystery." A mystery means you have to accept it simply on faith. No, but it does not satisfy the intelligence. The same explanation.

57:16Just like the drop of ocean water is the same qualitatively. But quantitatively it is different. This is expanding. I am the son of God, therefore, all the qualities of God are there. I'm one.

57:38Just like in the ordinary case, the son has got also a body, two hands, two legs, one head. I don't believe it. No, in that way he's equal with the father.

57:52Oh, the son... Oh, when you... there's two words: "sun" in the sky... I am speaking of this son. How do you speak? The father and son. But equality: the father has got two hands, and the son has got two hands.

58:11Everything bodily expression, even in color, even in facial expression. But the father is not the son. When the mother comes, the relation is different. So simultaneously one and different. That is our present.

58:37One and different. This is also there, but they cannot explain. Because they have no such knowledge. But the fact is there. Also if the interest of the father is there and the son acts according to that interest... Yes.

59:04That is another kind of oneness. Yes, oneness. He does not disagree with the interest of the father. The father wants that all living entities should come back to him, and he is executing the same vision.

59:18Come back through me, back to home, back to Godhead. But then the question comes: how can you say that the name of the Son is the same as the name of the Father? They are related.

59:32Still, they're lacking a name for the father. Then the charging is that you do not know the name of the father. That is, there is a name of the Father, but you do not know.

59:51Even in the Old Testament, there is a name for the Father. But he says they don't accept it. They don't accept and you do not know. If you don't accept, that means you do not know also.

1:00:07And also Christ prays: "Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name." That's it. But they do not know that. They don't do it. They don't hallow the name of the Father. That's it? And when we do it, they say it is pagan.

1:00:26How might you ignore it there? You see, most of the prayers will begin "O God, Almighty God," but it's just God. He has no—it's a definition, yes. You just know God is a person; He must have just...

1:00:38Like we have got the name Krishna, we have got many names, that's right. It's one of these names, but one of the names is Krishna. Krishna means "all-attractive." All-attractive. So God must be all-attractive.

1:00:55God should not be attractive for you and not for me. That is not God. It must be all-attractive. That is perfectly Krishna. And actually Krishna is all-attractive.

1:01:18When Krishna was present on this earth, He acted in so many ways, He's all-attractive. Somebody wanted to fight with Him, and He could fight very nicely so that the opposite party was glad.

1:01:40And somebody wanted to love Him, that was perfect. Somebody wanted to love Him as son, and that is perfect; as friend, that is perfect; and that is all it.

1:01:50There are reciprocations of different humors, twelve humors. Akhila rasāmṛta-sindhu, and kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam is the reservoir of all attractiveness. He can deal with everyone as he wants to be.

1:02:09Ye yathā māṁ prapadyante tāṁs tathaiva bhajāmy aham. There He is all-attractive. If you want to deal with Krishna as friend, He's all-attractive. As lover, all-attractive. As enemy, all-attractive.

1:02:35Therefore that is the full Krishna that is explained by Jīva Gosvāmī and the Vedas. This is the primary name of God: Krishna. And it is confirmed: kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam. There are many gods. Gods means controller.

1:02:56Subordinate, many. And Caitanya-caritāmṛta says that there are many gods, demigods, gods—everyone is controller. But Caitanya-caritāmṛta says, according to the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam: ekale īśvara kṛṣṇa. Real God is Krishna.

1:03:21Āra saba bhṛtya—they are all servants. All others, they are servants. Ekale īśvara... īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ. The Supreme Lord—there may be many lords, but real Lord is Krishna.

1:03:49So the Christians, they do not know the real Lord is Kṛṣṇa, the Father of Jesus Christ. So we, we are helping everyone. Every religion is searching after God. We are helping. He is God. Take it. And be happy.

1:04:29And I'm noticing is an analogous situation between the time now and the time when Christ was appearing. At that time, the established religious community was the Jewish faith.

1:04:45And because Christ was forcing them to see... Why they are walking always? What is this? It was settled that nobody should live on this floor. Walking, that's it. All is naked. Why isn't a stop and lock this room? Can we done?

1:05:12There are rooms on top of here. All day and night there were. No, I don't. I understand. I think he's gonna make it. Same one times I'm saying, man. If not above there, near almost above. Then I will see that they're locked.

1:05:34There are signs on them not to be used, but they're not paying attention. Yeah.

1:05:42But in, in any case, these... at that time, the Jewish people, Christ was trying to force them to depart from the ritual and begin to actually love God, to serve God.

1:05:57And because they did not want to give up their material positions as priests, etc., they became enemies of Christ. They finally had it. Not today. For example, in the Bible, it predicts the second coming of the Christ.

1:06:27At the time when devastation is near. Sometimes it says the Christ, sometimes it says the anointed one will come. And those who have got any sense, they'll follow him at that time of danger.

1:06:46So if he's coming and preaching love of God, they should recognize. But now the same followers of Christ have become the established religion attached to their material position.

1:07:00And when we preach love of God in your service, they are condemning us. Once they tried, once they invited me to a program only to attack me, not physically, but they were laying for me with so many arguments.

1:07:14They all jumped up, you know, when I... after I finished speaking, and there was a big quarrel. I told them they're hypocrites. And I walked out and left the place, you know. And uh, but in this way, this is a time.

1:07:28They're not afraid of truth. No. They are protecting their position. I think the time when devastation is coming is here. The atomic bombs are there. Everything is there. It's a very dangerous time. Some are lineage.

1:07:48So many wars. But they are not incense wars— epidemic, pestilence. What is going on? What is the League of Nations? Simply war. Exchange of words. Yes. So-called United Nations, they're all quarreling, quarreling constantly.

1:08:18Quarreling society, that's all, debating society. First of all, they start a League of Nations after the first one. That failed. Again they have started this United Nations. And this is also useless.

1:08:41So without God consciousness, everything is useless. That is stated in the Vedic literature. Bhagavad-bhakti-hīnasya jātiḥ śāstra-japa-tapaḥ aprāṇasya hi dehasya maṇḍanaṁ loka-rañjanam.

1:09:01If there is no God consciousness, the big nationality, jāti, or the big achievement, big success—all these things are just like decoration of the dead body. Aprāṇasya hi. A dead body means without life.

1:09:23So go on decorating it. So what is the use? Loka-rañjanam. Some people will say, "Oh, it is very nicely decorated." But what is the use of decorating a lifeless body? It is simply waste of money.

1:09:45Your living body, if I give you a nice dress, it is utilized. But if your body is dead, what is the use of decorating it? Simply as a body.

1:09:56So this modern civilization is decorating the dead body and praising amongst themselves. Saṁstutaḥ puruṣa-paśuḥ. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣa-paśuḥ. Anyone who is not God conscious is an animal.

1:10:17So other animals giving him vote. So what is the animal is being elected by the voice of some other animals? What is the benefit? This is going on.

1:10:29The so-called democracy means one big animal, just like Nixon, is made president. Now they accuse him: "You are concrete, you are so and so and so and that." He's not leaving, but he's animal.

1:10:42He has no feeling of inside that "these people are insulting me." Why should I stick to this position? But he's not honest. They like the big animal. The big animal devours them. And they complain. And they want such.

1:11:00I mean, devour. This is my very bad condition. Mahāprabhu says, "Koro para-upakāra," do good to others. How? By making your life perfect, by understanding this basic literature.

1:11:52Sometimes it seems to me that of all the classes of people in the society, the hypocrite is actually the lowest of all. They are disqualified in so many ways; there is no end of the list of their disqualification.

1:12:16Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyā hy upadrutāḥ. There is a lot of disguise in this. First of all, they're all bad. Manda. Or slow. Generally, they are all bad men. Manda.

1:12:33Sumanda-matayaḥ: and they pose to be reliable, they have accepted something nonsense. Sumanda-mata, that that mark, that uh, cult is not good. They'll accept that. Just like this Ramakrishna.

1:12:54They say, uh, "You can eat whatever you like, you can do whatever you like." They will accept that; it is very nice. There's no restriction. And as soon as we say, "You cannot do this, you cannot do this."

1:13:06This is very typical. That that's this guru mahārāja is doing. You can do anything, nonsense. Well, now, now he says, "No, you shouldn't do these things." Still they do it. Because they, they can't stop.

1:13:23He's very strong in feelings. Because he's a bad man. How he can stop? He's posing himself as God. So he is the most rascal, first-class rascal. That how he can make others?

1:13:37If you are touchstone, then you can make others gold. If you are ordinary stone, how you can turn others gold? That is his position. This... There was a place, there was a... Dull stone. Rascal, then.

1:13:53I thought, how you supposedly do say, "I am God"? There was a place quoted in their magazine. Somebody asked him, they say, "Your disciples say you are God. What do you say?"

1:14:08He said, "Well, you may not see me as God, but they may see something." And at that time, by saying that, "My disciples may see something different than you," he was saying actually, "They are seeing that I'm God."

1:14:26They're actually correct. So therefore I'm God. That was the direct implication of his statement. But how other time he says, "I'm only the humble servant of God"? But the implication of his statement is that he is God.

1:14:40Because they are saying, some fools are saying he's God, then he's God. They are all perfect. What is the value of their seeing? Seeing should be done... śāstra-cakṣuṣā. One should see through the scriptures.

1:15:04Śāstra-cakṣuṣā, there is in the... śāstra. Kṛṣṇa has given the fine śāstra. Yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya vartate kāma-kārataḥ. Na sa siddhim avāpnoti. Yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya.

1:15:27So, how is it to be accepted that his disciples' vision is perfect? And you are thinking yourself God by the vision of your rascal disciples, you are rascal. It must be supported by śāstra.

1:15:50Whether in the śāstra you are mentioned as Lord, that is the factor. And śāstra, everything is mentioned there.

1:16:04In future, there will be God's incarnation, uh, that's mentioned: His father's name, address, and the place, everything. So is your name, address, your father's name mentioned in the śāstra?

1:16:18Then everyone can say, "I'm God." And if people follow us, we can say that, "These followers, see, we God, therefore I'm God." What to speak of you? This can be said by anyone.

1:16:31So if others say like that, then what is the difference between that God, you God? There are many gods. But Bhagavān is one. So many gods there are, there are already existing, so what is your specific power?

1:16:49And what godly power you have shown? We accept Kṛṣṇa God because He has shown godly power. Hmm. Yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya. There is another: yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya. I

1:17:24asked one of the disciples, uh, what is the source of knowledge? Don't talk with them, they're all rascals. The gang of rascals. Yes. Please don't waste your time. Let them be. See, this is the point.

1:17:38As a hypocrite, I, I, I understand that in the Kali-yuga, there is four, there are four pillars of religion: austerity, cleanliness, mercifulness, and truthfulness.

1:17:53Now at this time, austerity is gone, cleanliness is gone, mercifulness is vanishing. There's a little truthfulness left. No, there is no truthfulness. We are appealing to some sense of truth. Is that just a, um, Y-E? Huh?

1:18:13What is Y-E? Y-A. Y-A. Y-A. But what did I, I see in the sixteenth chapter? Yeah. I seem to recall you wrote that in the Bhagavatam, that there is a slight trace of truthfulness and we try to appeal to that truthfulness.

1:18:43That truthfulness is chanting of the holy name of the Lord. That is the only truth. But when a person is coming... This is the only concession in this age. Otherwise, it is all filled up with all sinful.

1:18:58This is the only concession. If he chants the holy name of the kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya mukta-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet, he becomes liberated from all contamination. This is the only way. Otherwise, it is impossible.

1:19:21Na sa siddhim avāpnoti na sukhaṁ na parāṁ gatim. But he who discards scriptural injunctions and acts according to his own whims, attains neither perfection nor happiness nor the supreme destination.

1:19:44If you do not accept the injunction of this, thou shalt not kill... Why is it killed? Then you get never perfection. Na sa siddhim avāpnoti. There's no question of becoming perfect, Krishna says. Na sukhaṁ.

1:20:04And there cannot be any happiness, and what to speak of going back to home, back to Godhead. That's far, far away. I do not know why people, they do not take very seriously the injunction of the śāstra.

1:20:28And he says that he has no basic principle of śāstra. Now he says that the only... at one time he said they're dead books. One time he said they're dead books. Dead books. Dead books, yeah.

1:20:42The dead books, what is the benefit of dead books? Therefore there's no benefit of dead books. So therefore you don't need these books. You are your authority. Yes. So everyone can say, "I am my authority." There is a defense.

1:20:55How we can become God? Anyone can say, "I am authority." I say, "I'm God." He said, "I am God." Then what kind of God you are? Everyone can say. The man with the best publicity campaign.

1:21:10The man with the best publicity campaign, then he becomes God. That is another. That is another. Publicity by publicity, there are so many. Rascal medicine is sold. But that is not genuine medicine. No doctor will prescribe.

1:21:34You know, any medicine which is publicly advertised, no qualified doctor will prescribe that medicine. This is the law. A bona fide registered medical practitioner will never do so.

1:22:00The question I'm thinking about, this matter of truthfulness, is something like this. The truthfulness is there, just like we say, "Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa Mahā-mantra." This is true. Chant the holy name of God.

1:22:17If you have got any name of your God, chant. We say like that. We don't say that you have to chant Kṛṣṇa. But if you actually really have got the name of God, then you chant it; that is our program. Nāmnām akāri bahudhā.

1:22:37So, God is unlimited. There must be unlimited names also. Yes, we have got thousands and thousands of names. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that, "Harer nāma." "Harer nāma." "Harer nāma eva kevalam."

1:22:56He does not say a particular name, but God's name. So if you are confident that this is God's name, chant it. But if you say, "I do not know actually whether it is God's name or somebody's name," then how can you chant?

1:23:18You have no actual knowledge of God's name. Therefore, take this name. What is the harm? God has many names. This is also a name, so many thousands are acting, why don't you take it?

1:23:34If you have no definite understanding of God's name, that is a very good question. If you have, chant that name; if you haven't got, chant this name. What is the objection?

1:23:50This is accepted by this, by all Vedic literature, all followers of Vedic literature. Kṛṣṇa's bhagavān-sva, practically in India you find millions of temples worshipping Kṛṣṇa, worshipping Lord, chanting Kṛṣṇa's name.

1:24:14Here also they're chanting; see their behavior, their character. Everyone is struck with wonder how this boy and nice. So why don't you accept this practical method? Why do you go to theories?

Role of the spiritual master

1:24:39In the Bible, in one place, Christ says that no man can serve two masters. He says either he'll love one and despise the other, or he'll despise one. That's Mammon. That's Mammon. He says so.

1:24:53Therefore, the Christians, they want Mammon. No, no, they want it just as Christ. But real Christians... But he's not departing from God. But his point is this.

1:25:09He says similarly, he says, "No man can serve both God and Mammon." Yes. He says because if the more he... that is also bad. And the more he loves Mammon, the more he'll despise God. Yes.

1:25:29Now generally, in the name of being Christian, they are loving Mammon more and more. Why Christian? Everyone. Everyone, yes, but this is the point. And when you tell them that, one man, he will become ashamed, I've seen it.

1:25:44But another man, you see, he will argue, he will try to find some other interpretation. He will say, "Well, you're worshiping... no, your God is not the one God." Or he'll say anything else to avoid that point.

1:26:04That's what I mean about the difference between the two men. We say there are many gods. But here is the Supreme God. We say that. There may be many gods. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ. But the Supreme God is Krishna.

1:26:21That is our point. Now you compare with all other gods, this God, you find that Krishna is supreme. Bring one after another, all the gods, or all the dogs. We see that this is inferior to Krishna. That we shall prove.

1:26:41That way He is the Supreme God. And that is accepted by authorities, by śāstra. He accepted: "paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān..." the Supreme Parabrahman. So we have to follow Arjuna.

1:27:04We have to follow Vyāsa, we have to follow Nārada, Asita, Devala, the ācāryas. Caitanya Mahāprabhu is presenting Krishna, is mad after Krishna. So why should we go to anyone else? Really, the authorities, śāstra, pratyakṣa.

1:27:27Why should we accept something else? One who knows the thing. But if he is God, why should we accept something imitation? You accept something imitation because you do not know.

1:27:53Just like you take gold to an expert, he he rubs on the stone, yes. So Krishna is accepted by the experts, by the touchstone's test, on the ācāryas. Even Śaṅkarācārya is impersonal, he said: sa bhagavān svayaṁ kṛṣṇaḥ.

1:28:21Nārāyaṇaḥ paro 'vyaktāt: Nārāyaṇa is beyond this material world. And that Nārāyaṇa is Krishna. He has accepted. And what you speak of Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, they accept. Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Viṣṇu Svāmī.

1:28:37Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu and all the disciples of Lord Caitanya. So where is the doubt? There's no question of doubt. Śāstra accepts, authority accepts. Sādhu-śāstra-guru-vākya, tinete kariyā aikya.

1:28:58We should accept something, we should accept by a saintly person, by the śāstra and by the guru. This is the test. The śāstra says Krishna is the Supreme Lord.

1:29:12And saintly persons, like Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, many thousands, they accept Krishna. And my guru says, "Yes," then I have no doubt. My business is finished.

1:29:26Because if these three persons recommend, that is first, that is my position. My position is very easy. I accept the three authorities. Sādhu-śāstra-guru-vākya, tinete kariyā aikya.

1:29:50You have to coincide the opinion of the śāstra, the opinion of saintly persons, the opinion of your spiritual master. Spiritual master will testify, "Yes." This is the position of spiritual master.

1:30:07And you will testify in the same way. Sādhu, guru, śāstra. This is vānaprastha. This happens. The problem is that the Christians seem to be with that they have no concept of the spiritual master.

1:30:28They seem to have no concept of the spiritual master. Why? Why not? They accept Jesus Christ. They accept the priestly order. Why not? That is spiritual world. Because I said that Christ is the way.

1:30:43That's alright, but anyone who is directing the ways of Christ, he's spiritual master.

1:30:57Many, many other Christian groups, many other Christian groups, many of them say that they need no help or any such teacher about Christ. Because they are given, they're not even Bible. They're interpreting in divine way.

1:31:12So they have gone to hell. They do not need even Bible. They can change the meaning of Bible. Now they're allowing this man-to-man marriage. Is it not? Yes. So they can change anything. They can change anything.

1:31:42Because the idea is vox populi. Many priests recommend that this is alright, reject Bible, take this, this is going on.

1:31:54They may be rascals and fools number one, but because there are many, Bible should be rejected, they should be. That is the mentality, no?

1:32:08There is no authority of Bhagavān or any scripture, that is the mentality of the present day. That these rascals, these are dead books. Everybody say it like that. These are all dead books.

1:32:24Now you manufacture your own religion, own opinion. And that is to be done by votes. Maybe they are all rascals, but it is still vote because there is vote. Rascals say, all the rascals, they say something good.

1:32:41Then nobody calculate that this is the vote of the rascals. But because there is number of votes, they accept it. This is that, is the same: śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ.

1:33:06We take it, Prabhupāda is the only group, that anything voted by rascals, the conclusion is also rascal. Perhaps we are saying that.

1:33:18Others say, "No, if there is a large number of votes, even if it is rascal time, it should be accepted."

1:33:33And I've experienced in preaching that in the society we preach to, there is one class of people who are clutching these false processes. When they hear what we say, they'll never see it.

1:33:54Another class of men, when they hear, they become ashamed, they begin to listen. Then they can cut again. Isn't that becoming ashamed? Isn't that a slight trace of truthfulness? Oh yes. That is after truth.

1:34:13A truthful man will accept the truth, not his prestigious position. Just like Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya, he impersonally, he talked with Caitanya Mahāprabhu.

1:34:27In so many jugglery of words, that when he saw that he is defeated, he accepted it. Yes, you are that. That was the position. An honest man. Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya began. Impersonalist to personalist.

1:34:46And it seems to me that if the person is an atheist, at least, at least he has the straightforwardness to deny God. But atheists deny God. But they are better.

1:35:01At this point, they say that we accept Vedas and become atheists. They're more dangerous. That is the bhāṣya of Śaṅkarācārya. Or Bible, or Guru Mahārāja. So that's the lowest class. That is the hypocrite. Most dangerous.

1:35:18That is stated by Caitanya Mahāprabhu: «veda nā māniyā bauddha haila nāstika». Vedas, Bauddha, Buddhists, they do not accept the authority of Vedas. So that we call them atheist. But they are straightforward.

1:35:34But the Śaṅkarites being impersonalist, he accepted the Vedas. But the same thing he's speaking, Buddha is speaking zero. He thinks there is no fault. It is also zero.

1:35:45He's speaking the same thing, but under the guidance, under the protection of Veda. Veda-prāmāṇya-vāda is more dangerous. And Veda, there is no such thing. That God is impersonal, God is personal.

1:36:02Krishna's Veda is vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyaḥ. Through the Vedas, I am to be understood. He is person. So the Vedas means searching out the supreme person, pointing out. That is Veda.

1:36:18So if one takes the shelter of Vedas and if he says God is impersonal, he is more dangerous, misguiding. Buddha said, "I don't care for this." That's all right. He doesn't care. So he is gentleman.

1:36:38In the Bhagavad-gītā, Krishna says no one can become a yogi unless he renounces the desire for sense gratification. And this is the same as loving God and loving mammon. Same, I think it's the same teaching.

1:36:56And in some bhagavat says, yoginām api sarveṣāṁ mad-gatenāntar-ātmanā, devotee is the first-class yogi. Others, even they are yogi, they are inferior class.

1:37:12Even the yogis who have attained aṣṭa-siddhi, eight kinds of perfection, is also inferior to bhakti-yogī.

1:37:22Because bhakti-yogī does not practice this yogic practice, but he can show himself more than that by siddhis, because that is done by Krishna. That a child has no money, but his father has money.

1:37:42So in need, the father is prepared to give any amount of money. So why a bhakta should practice yoga-siddhi? But all the siddhis will be shown by Krishna. That is Krishna's business. Let him depend on Krishna.

1:38:01He showed all these wonderful things. That is bhakti-yogī's position. And he does not practice any mystic yoga system, but he can show all mystic powers. By the grace of Krishna. That is the position of them.

1:38:25He's innocent, depending on Krishna. That's all. And Krishna is Yogeśvara. Yatra yogeśvaraḥ. Find out this verse. Yatra yogeśvaraḥ kṛṣṇo. So Bhakti is always carrying Yogeśvara.

1:38:49So all the yogic power, mystic power is within His fingers. And he has no difficulty with mammon. No. No difficulty. No. Because he has Krishna. That is the—I tell them that is the test.

1:39:08If they love mammon or if they love sense gratification. We are searching after a nice house in London. Krishna said, "Yes, take it." So what is the use of practicing mystic yoga? Just depend on Krishna. Yatra yogeśvaraḥ...

1:39:43Yatra yogeśvaraḥ kṛṣṇo, yatra pārtho dhanur-dharaḥ, tatra śrīr vijayo bhūtir.

1:39:54Wherever there is Krishna, the master of all mystics, and wherever there is Arjuna, the supreme archer, the God and devotee, there will also certainly be opulence, victory, extraordinary power, and morality. Yes.

1:40:12That is my... two things must be there: sincere devotee and Krishna. Then everything is there. Take for a... little bit I'm experiencing that gradually they're seeing the sincerity of the devotees.

1:40:53As they see the sincerity of the devotees. You simply remain a sincere devotee with Krishna. Everything is within your grip. Because Krishna is within your grip. Vedeṣu durlabham adurlabham ātma-bhaktau.

1:41:14You cannot search out Krishna in the Vedas. But if there is a devotee, he can deliver Krishna. Take it. That is the position of bhakti. Adurlabham ātma-bhaktau. He can deliver Krishna. Take it. I give it.

1:41:35This is the position of this. You cannot search out Krishna by reading Vedas. Although the Vedas means to search out Krishna, vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyaḥ. But it is not possible, very, very difficult.

1:41:51But if we approach a devotee, he will immediately tell you where Krishna is. "Take it." Therefore it is confirmed by Viśvanātha: yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādo... prasādaḥ.

1:42:04By the mercy of the spiritual master, you immediately get the mercy of the Lord. If you do not get the mercy of Krishna, then you are nowhere. If you have no mercy of the spiritual master, then you are nowhere.

1:42:26At Cambridge I met one big professor of Sanskrit who taught about the Vedas. And I started to talk to him about Krishna. He said, "These Vedas, they don't mention this Krishna. Who is this Krishna?"

1:42:43He has studied, yet it is clearly mentioned: kṛṣṇāya devakī-nandanāya. In the Atharva Veda. But it's very difficult to find it. He didn't find that. He has read the Vedas, he says, but he missed that point.

1:42:58But what about these ācāryas? Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, and other big, big ācāryas—if they did not find, they have given in their commentary all Vedic quotations. So you are more than them?

1:43:17Are you more than Rāmānujācārya? Who cares for you? Rāmānujācārya is controlling the whole Indian society. Who cares for you? So are you to be accepted more than Rāmānujācārya? You should challenge like that.

1:43:34He wasn't even interested. He said, "I'm not interested." Well, with a fool like you, we are also not interested. You may be a very big man among some, but I will consider you are rascal number one.

1:43:49Because you have got the criteria in the Bhagavad-gītā.

1:43:57One who does not surrender to Krishna, he is in the four groups: the sinful, the rascal, the lowest of mankind, and one whose knowledge is stolen by illusion, or the demon. So you are one of them.

1:44:16So you have to speak like that. Give them a challenge first. You say there is no mention in the Vedas, that's all right, that's why you don't accept Krishna.

1:44:27What about the ācāryas, who are controlling the whole Vedic society in India? Any Indian calling himself Hindu or Vedic, they're following either of these ācāryas. So what about them? They are fools.

1:44:47They are accepting Krishna without many reference. You have become a foreigner, so big scholar in Vedas, and they are all fools. You have to accept like that. We shall accept you are fool. What do you know?

1:45:06And that is mentioned in the Vedas. Anyone who does not accept Krishna, he is a fool number one. So you are fool number one. We cannot follow you. You should be proud like that. And this is quite reasonable.

1:45:26Why the ācāryas accept Krishna? Does it mean that they did not know anything about Vedas? And Rāmānujācārya comments on the Bhagavad-gītā, everyone comments, quoting all Vedic references. All Vedic references.

1:45:48But the Māyāvādī says like that. He says with reference to all Vedic, Brahma Upaniṣads, all references. Veda means Upaniṣad. And our third Bhagavad, there is clear mention. Devakī-nandanaṁ śrī kṛṣṇa. Gopāla-tāpanī.

1:46:10There is clear. We have to study this Vedic literature. Jīva Gosvāmī. You study or not study, if you stick to your point, that will help. But if you study more, that is good.

1:46:28Sometimes, sometimes when we're dealing with... and we were thinking somehow I would get him to come and see you. And then we have to be a little diplomatic with it. This is a waste of time.

Preaching strategies and global activities

1:46:40But that daily thing. I thought maybe if we brought one big rascal and if you defeated, he'll not accept me. Even if he's defeated, it's simply a waste of time. He's not Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya.

1:46:52That if he's defeated, he'll become a follower. That was the formal etiquette. You are a big scholar, I am a big scholar. We are talking. One who is defeated, he shall become his disciple. Surrender to.

1:47:08Then if you don't surrender if you are defeated, then why shall I waste my time? If I defeat you and if you do not become my disciple, my follower, then why shall I waste my time?

1:47:23Therefore, one such rascal came to Jīva Gosvāmī and he wanted to talk with him, that "I want to talk with him about śāstra." So, "I have defeated so many scholars." So, "What do you want?" "Now you want to defeat him."

1:47:42So, "I write you defeat me." Yes, "Sign me there." Yes. Yes, this man has given it. Take it. No. Go out. He wanted to have what, śāstra-darśana? Why shall I waste my time? Let him take that paper. Yes, "I'm defeated."

1:48:07What... what about the Stahl correspondence? In the Stahl correspondence he never accepted defeat. Yeah. He became silent. That is defeat. At last he could not reply. That is defeat. I thought if... Maunaṁ sammati-lakṣaṇam.

1:48:26When you become silent, that means you have accepted. You may say that "I am not defeated," but you are defeated. And your student wrote a book about it. Maunaṁ sammati-lakṣaṇam. So...

1:48:48Like last Friday night we went to the city of Bristol because this big, the biggest... this... the biggest professor of Oriental philosophy in Oxford was speaking there about mysticism.

1:49:06So he went and listened to his talk. And his thesis was that the Bhagavad-gītā is amoral because it is dualist. Anyone can say, any envious person can say like that.

1:49:20But we have to test whether his statement is confirmed by the ācārya. Otherwise any insane man can say like that. We have to accept that statement? Ācāryavān puruṣo veda. The man is in knowledge who follows the ācārya.

1:49:44He is speaking against the ācāryas, big, big ācāryas, Śaṅkarācārya, so he's a fool instead. If I defy all big men and I want to establish my theory, then I am a fool number one. And only the fools will hear it."

1:50:10Why didn't you say that? What about the ācāryas? Well, Vyāsadeva has written Bhāgavatam about Kṛṣṇa. Is it the point?

1:50:20Does it mean that he is writing something about somebody immoral and waste his time, such a learned scholar Vyāsadeva?

1:50:29See, what I was going to do, I was going to challenge him on the point of... There is no use of challenge because they are... that's fool number one. Don't waste your time. Waste your time? They will never become that.

1:50:41But you see, it's like this. In the Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa says to Arjuna, "Because you're a devotee..." Yes. "...therefore you can understand this."

1:50:49I was saying now, who are you to speak on the Bhagavad-gītā when you're not a devotee? When you're not in disciplic succession? But he's not a devotee, he's telling himself that, "I'm not a devotee."

1:51:02Your business... why should I hear you? You are not a devotee. You cannot give any opinion on this Bhagavad-gītā because you are an outsider. That will be our stand.

1:51:13But I wanted, somehow I wanted to get him here to have you defeat him. Why shall I always try with this rascal? Even if he's defeated, he won't understand what it was.

1:51:23But if it's on the tape, if it's on the tape and if you defeat him and then people read this, that here is Swami Bhaktivedanta saying, here is Zaehner saying, and in every place he's appearing wrong, that maybe I thought that might be valuable.

1:51:44He's a drunkard. In the meeting, after he finished, he lit a cigarette and headed for the bar. Sinful number one, why shall I talk with you? And he's a deliberate enemy of Kṛṣṇa. Yes. Yes.

1:52:07Should a devotee talk with Hiraṇyakaśipu? Thank you. Now that I was misunderstanding the policy. Let us do our own business. That's all. We have no business to defeat this rascal or that rascal.

1:52:30But if it need be there, we shall do that. But generally we should avoid them. Upekṣā. Upekṣā. Upekṣā, it is called upekṣā. Premā-maitrī-kṛpopekṣā.

1:52:43For a preacher, these four things should be done: God, the supreme lovable object; to make friendship with devotees; to show mercy to the innocent people; and to avoid these rascals who are envious. Dviṣat.

1:53:08Dviṣat means envious of Kṛṣṇa. So he's envious. So he should be rejected. Don't you understand? His telling of this, that "Kṛṣṇa was immoral," will not carry any effect. Yes. Will not carry any effect.

1:53:30He's not so great that as soon as he says "Kṛṣṇa is immoral," immediately the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement stopped. That's ahaṅkāra. Let him tell, a madman.

1:53:41Pāgale kinā bale, chāgale kinā khāya. It is said: what a madman does not speak—all nonsense—and what a goat does not eat. So his example is never taken into consideration. Suppose he is accepted, he is deep.

1:54:02Do you mean to say everyone will become Kṛṣṇa conscious? Does it mean? Will it be? Then why shall I waste my time? Now they've also printed in a newspaper the summary of his speech. So why don't you protest?

1:54:25Should I protest it in writing? Yes, why not? Write to the newspaper. That according to Bhagavad-gītā, he's a rascal. Quote the śloka. So a rascal may say anything. But you are also such a rascal that you have published it.

1:54:41So kindly publish this also. Quote Bhagavad-gītā: na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ. Māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. They lie.

1:55:11Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ. Vāsudeva... and this rascal drunkard, smoker, he is saying "immoral." So we'll have to accept Vāsudeva or this rascal? Why should we waste...?

1:55:30So you can protest against this. Big, big, stalwart, saintly person. They'll accept Krishna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, as the śāstra has accepted.

1:55:45And in India, all Hindus at least, they worship Krishna, the Supreme Bhagavān, in hundreds and thousands and millions of temples, in each home. So does it mean they'll stop doing this by hearing this trash?

1:56:05Do you think like that? So what is the use of publishing this news? Question your paper. Do you think they will be convinced by this rascal's statement? “Krishna is immoral, therefore let us give up Krishna.”

1:56:24What authority has he got? Any madman can say anything. If I say here, “Oh, the Queen is a prostitute,” I can say, prosecute me. But will that carry public opinion?

1:56:46Can I say that public opinion will change in that way, and they'll give up the Queen's respect? So this is a madman. Unfortunately, such a class of men are under the guidance of the people. Andha yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ.

1:57:18A blind man is leading other men. That is the great... So you make your propaganda. And you can press, you can write also. As he has said in his press something, you can also speak.

1:57:38So many harsh words, cruel words against him—who checks it? You say on the authority of Bhagavad-gītā that “You are a rascal, you are most sinful, you are the lowest of mankind.” You say, “Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ.”

1:58:01You also say, “You are a mūḍha,” on the authority of Bhagavad-gītā. That is your business. Let him speak harshly, you speak more harshly. Why don't you speak? You also say in a big meeting that he is rascal number one.

1:58:24He's the lowest of mankind. Declare like this. Then let him go to the court. Yes. He was waiting for that. Oh, come on. So you're not happy in the room? It's a very wonderful city, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Very good.

1:59:05So at least there's progress. Well, we brought back three devotees with us and they're now in Paris temple. Two nice Italian boys and a Swiss boy. Very good.

1:59:16And we met with one priest called Monsignor Rossano, who is in a non-Christian department of the Vatican. And he has said it is very, very easy to arrange a meeting with the Pope.

1:59:29And he knows already Dr. Rossano knows about our movement in India. He was there several months ago and he saw one of our pandals in Bombay and the devotees in Delhi.

1:59:41So he said that simply we send first of all an official letter to one of the Pope's cardinals that you would like to see him in the Vatican. And then I will go there and make the arrangements.

1:59:55But you have nice quarters in the Vatican City. They have a very nice park. No, I think we wrote one sometime. But they, we see, not in black. We didn't send it through official channels. Uh, that was the problem.

2:00:12This way he knows the man you can send, we can say. So what is the difference between your writing and my letter? Well, the second, but they also wish from the right still, but only he knows the... No,

2:00:31I am carrying it, they still do not reply. That is inside. If the personal secretary writes on behalf of Your Grace, then it goes to the cardinal. There's one cardinal in the... But you, you make a letter and take it.

2:00:55And I don't know, as a sign as personal secretary. Yes. But you said that the Pope would be more than pleased to welcome you. That's alright. He should. But once I wrote, but there is no reply. You know that? Yes. From Montreal?

2:01:16Yeah. That letter was published in our Back to Godhead. It wasn't delivered through the proper channel. Now recently there was a picture of the Pope with that swami from New York, Satchidananda Swami, somebody like that.

2:01:35And they're like this, smiling. Is it so important? He was... he will sit with anybody. Like this, you know, one of these swamis from New York. They were sitting together with the Pope, and they were both smiling. Like this.

2:01:57And it seems very meaningless. She too might also have to do that. Anyway, you stop in Rome sometimes and make sure the weather is also very wonderful. It's very hot there and dry. What is the temperature?

2:02:21One hundred degrees. Also we usually find a very good sponsor in the Catholic people within society. Yes. Make arrangement, I shall go there and speak generally. In the meantime, the secretary... but once he did not reply.

2:02:46But now I think this movement is known worldwide. There's more known about the society. On a week from this Wednesday, Lord Brockway is coming here with his wife in the evening for dinner and he'll stay the whole evening.

2:03:06He was very, very nice. He's 85 and vegetarian since childhood birth in Calcutta, in Berkeley? Yes, and he lived in Berhampore most of his early days. Berhampore. Yeah.

2:03:23And now he's fit, walking out around the House of Lords, eighty-five years old. Very nice people. Englishmen are generally handy. That is our impression.

2:03:49So then he gave us a pass into the House of Lords and we watched the proceedings for some time. Very nice. High class music. Yes. Lord Brockway is together.

2:04:06Later I saw George over at Denis' office and they were having business meetings, so we began to talk about the House of Lords. And George has got a plan to invite Prince Charles to his home.

2:04:31How long it takes from London to be here by plane? About an hour and a half, two hours, that's all. Very good services between London and Rome. Most beautiful city in Europe. Most beautiful. Old civilization.

2:04:54One of the oldest histories in Europe. Yeah. So what are your activities there?

2:05:07Well, I was there with Guru Gaurāṅga for five days, and we were staying in a Catholic hospital, and we were making preparations to become an association incorporated in Italy.

2:05:21And we met with a nice lawyer, he's 24 years old and very willing to, uh, make us into an incorporated society.

2:05:31So as soon as I go back with, um, some Italian devotees already—seven Italian devotees in Paris— uh, then we can make a very nice center there, I'm sure. That's right. We have many friends already.

2:05:46Seeing the Pope is not very important. Our preaching is more important. Every week one coachload of Italian tourists comes to Bury Place Temple as part of the tour. They're very pious.

2:05:59There are many nice men all over the world. So our preaching should pick up them. Kicking out all these Jñānīs and what is that? Zen. We met with one Marchesa. She runs a macrobiotic center in Rome.

2:06:17She's been vegetarian for fifteen years. She has a son who's vegetarian. Vegetarians will, uh, very quickly understand us.

Animal protection and universal brotherhood

2:06:27Non-vegetarians cannot understand what is God. It is not possible. Yes. She appreciated very much the Bhagavad-gītā. Vinā paśughnāt. That is there in the mouth. Those who are animal killers, they cannot understand.

2:06:45It is not possible. Their brain is so dull that it is impossible for them to understand God. That means this is the first step. You will find, you make a statistic. Study all the non-vegetarians. They cannot have any idea.

2:07:07Even scientists. Even big, big men, they have no clear idea. They cannot. That's not possible. At least the vegetarianism helps one to understand well. In Canada, they cut down animal slaughter by 20%. Uh-huh, in Canada. Why?

2:07:37Twenty percent? Massive. That's some economic measure. That's economic measure, it's not pious. Just like in India they make compromise with the government that cows which are giving milk will not be slaughtered.

2:08:00There is a... [unclear]. Oh, less than in Italy, even today, they're using the cows and the bulls to pull the... Just like in India. I saw big, big white cows. Very strong, very broad, pulling carts in the countryside.

2:08:19And they're after that, they're killing? No. After taking the milk, after engaging him to work, "thank you". This is civilized. Slaughter. If you work hard for me and if you give me food, and then I kill you.

2:08:41What is the morality? Ask this rascal that you have more morality than Krishna by killing cows? She's giving you milk, you are killing your mother. So you are more moralist?

2:09:05The basic principle that we're doing, as far as we're trying to appeal to the section of society that may understand. And for the rascals we don't care so much, nor for any tricks or gimmicks.

2:09:22Anyone who is really inquisitive, we can talk. But if we know that he's a rascal number one, we should not waste our time.

2:09:32And talk to many other people, those who are actually inquisitive, searching out, then our labor is fruitful. But if I know this man is rascal number one, jealous and envious, why should we waste time?

2:09:51If we did not know, that is a different thing. But if we know there is purpose for the jealous, why should we talk to him? And what benefit will be there? Suppose if he's defeated, what benefit we get?

2:10:07So why should we waste our valuable time? Better chant Hare Krishna.

2:10:15Just like last night, we had a... we took a hall in the city of Brighton, which is on the southern coast, and all week five of the boys, Kiśora, four other boys stayed there, they made publicity, we passed out papers and things, and we charged a little bit, just enough to keep the rascals out.

2:10:35And the interested people, they immediately, they give a little bit and then they come. So we had a hundred guests at the program, about a hundred, and the whole thing was very nice.

2:10:44In catur-āśrama, we admit selected persons, not business. They chanted and loved prasāda. To the innocent we should be very much... We should devote our time for that. Kṛpā. This is preaching. Preaching is kṛpā. Mercy.

2:11:08Not my mercy, but God's mercy we are delivering, that's all, like a peon. It is mercy. Just like a peon brings some money, money order. That is not his money. Somebody has sent delivery.

2:11:26The man who is taking, he also feels obliged. Oh, you have brought it in right time. But he's not paying. Similarly, our business is servant of God. The mercy of God we are delivering. I am insignificant.

2:11:43What mercy I have got I can't say, but Kṛṣṇa's mercy I can deliver. We must avoid doing harm. That is our business. So one is genius of Kṛṣṇa, why should we ask us and take the message?

2:12:04At the end of that Friday night with that professor, I, at the end, I... I knew out of ten aparādhas, offenses, that anyone who is not willing to talk anything about Kṛṣṇa consciousness...

2:12:23When I was with that professor, I knew I should have stood up and challenged him on the spot at the end of his talk.

2:12:30But I didn't do it because I thought, I was thinking so many things, if we can get him to come here like that, I shouldn't have done it. I should have challenged him right on the spot. Yeah. This is challenge.

2:12:40You are talking about... I knew how to challenge him, but I didn't do it. Because I thought something else instead. I was... But outside that. You cannot talk of Kṛṣṇa. That's right. Nobody will accept your statement.

2:12:59Why, why you are wasting your time in this way and becoming sinful more? You are already sinful, we can understand. But he will become more sinful. But another thing is that Kṛṣṇa is immoralized.

2:13:19But there are many other immoralists. Why are you mentioning Kṛṣṇa? So He's a famous immoralist. You are not so famous. You are not so famous. Logically. Nobody knows you. But I can give you statistics.

2:13:46Millions of people know Kṛṣṇa. So what is your word? And Kṛṣṇa says you are a rascal. So whose vote will you look at? Use these words. Kṛṣṇa says that you are a rascal.

2:14:05As you are saying Kṛṣṇa is immoral, Kṛṣṇa says you are a rascal and lowest of the mankind. So whose vote will you be careful of? Kṛṣṇa's or yours?

2:14:33Kṛṣṇa is so famous that even an envious person like you, you are also speaking of Him. But who speaks about you? Sometimes. Kṛṣṇa's name is in the dictionary. Is your name in the dictionary? So what do you ask?

2:15:17But these programs, that community, we begin to attract a certain community; it's a small community, but little by little it will grow. They're very pleased with our program when they meet it.

2:15:29No, we have to select right persons. Moons, not the stars. We have to select. Ekaś candras tamo hanti — if we can select one person right, like a moon, that is sufficient to illuminate, not these hundred millions of stars.

2:15:50What is the value of these stars? The twinkling would be this way. And if there is one moon, the whole world is illuminated. So our policy should be like that: to find out a moon, not millions of stars.

2:16:09Just like he has got so many followers. None of his followers can talk with our followers. I even in the Guru asked a topic on Paul. That's one. What is the one? I think in this country there are many moons. Many.

2:16:45More than anywhere I've seen. They're intelligent. But they have not been guided properly. Otherwise, they are intelligent. They're coming from aristocratic families. Kṣatriya families. So they're intelligent.

2:17:07Just watching the proceedings of the House of Lords, how intelligently every problem is presented and discussed and they pass, compromise, find some solution. Very... oh, you've never seen such high brains.

2:17:22And for hundreds of years the same house is going on like that. No disturbance. Unfortunately, it's not the real power. But you just put the right contents into that situation and they can all become Kṛṣṇa conscious.

2:17:41It's the House of Commons that has the power. One difficulty is that, uh, they are not ending their sinful activities. They say... That's like drinking wine. It is sinful. But they take it: "What is sinful?"

2:18:00It is... what is drinking? It is illicit sex. They don't consider it sin. Eating meat, they don't consider it sin. That is a defect. They caught two big men from the House of Lords recently going to prostitutes. Yes.

2:18:17It was all over the newspapers. They are reluctant to give up this sinful life. Therefore, however cultured they may be... One of the items discussed today was the Pig Production Development Amendment. What is that?

2:18:35Killing pig production. Yeah, laws governing pig production. Oh, yeah. They talk about the animals just like, uh, pounds of, uh, wheat or pieces of metal, in the same language. It's an economic matter.

2:18:53How much was slaughtered this month, this month as opposed to last month? Just completely mechanical. Completely brutal. There was a bill presented by Zetland. Lord Zetland? Uh, it must be Lord Zetland. Yeah, it's Brockway.

2:19:08That means that former Zetland's son. Maybe you should contact him. Because his father was governor, I think.

2:19:19This Brockway, Lord Brockway says that he will introduce us to all the lords there who are favorable toward our kind of lifestyle. No, not a big bill. It's something about housing. His father was a good philosopher. Mm-hmm.

2:19:42But they all must be very intelligent then. If your ideas here... Shetland is in Scotland? Shetland, yes. There is no place. Is it a Scottish form? Is that one? It might not be a place. It might be just a name.

2:20:11I see it once, I think it's in north of, northeast of London, in that corner. I've seen it once. Is that like, is that the small sticks out into the... He may be a Scotchman, but he decided here to become Lord of Jetland.

2:20:38Also they're discussing wars and insurance and aircraft. What are they? Uh, I'll give you this. No, no, I'm not. I cannot waste my time. I've got this dictaphone, I've got this... When I stop this, I what? Yeah.

2:21:12When I stop this, I... that is my beating. Yeah, if you want me to go there for one or two days, I can go. I think later when the, when the weather gets a little cooler here, cold, then it'd be nice to go there. Oh.

2:22:11And that is very hot. Well no, I say when the weather here is cold. Then it, then it's warmer, it's better to go there. It is already warm here. Yes, in Rome the, the weather is very similar to Los Angeles.

2:22:25It's very similar to Los Angeles weather. It never gets cold. In wintertime maybe sixty degrees. Never below sixty degrees in winter. So just now it's hot up until September, October. The temperature is 100.

2:22:46100? It starts to get frosty. September starts to get cold. It's never extremely cold in Virginia. November... There's snow. Only three, four times a year, a little snow. Not much.

2:23:15Sometimes around Christmas time, I guess, for me. When I arrived here, like, I came from Bombay, it was on Christmas Day. When I left Bombay, it was about eighty degrees. I got off and got to my room in London.

2:23:29There were icicles five inches long on the windows. Ice was hanging. No, no, no. When I was in that, uh, Iskcon, what is that? Oh, yeah. Baker Street. Baker Street. Yeah. Oh, I from my window I was seeing every day, so no fun.

2:23:53Yes, I have to start off. Last winter was mild here, but the winter before, it wasn't mild. Quite cold. So many days. It never snows in Rome. It never snows in Rome. Never. He hasn't even had a place, it's already invited.

2:24:20So if you like it, then go. Here's your point. There's some very nice houses in them also. Huh? Very nice houses. All marble. Marble floors. Italy's pivot. Yeah. Whole airport station is marble, I've seen. Airport? Athens, Athens.

2:24:47Athens, uh, also. And Rome also. Athens also near Rome. In Greece. So there, the whole airport is covered in marble. Big, big marble, so thick. Yes. They also chanted Hare Kṛṣṇa.

2:25:14Yes, some young men, as soon as they saw us: "Hare Kṛṣṇa." Where was...? Athens. You know that. Yeah. You are with me. Yes. I was surprised at you. You know that. That was the highest culture.

2:25:40That was the highest culture ever seen on this side. Greece. Yeah. Greece history is the original history. But when you discussed Aristotle and Socrates, when you discussed...

2:25:55When we discussed Aristotle, Socrates, Plato before... But this is the best philosopher amongst the Western. He accepted immortality of soul. Only for humans. Only for the humans. No. What is your opinion?

2:26:16That animal has no soul? The animal has no soul, no. You agree to that? Why? That's what we've been always been taught. Huh? An animal has no soul. Well, you have been told, but what is your personal opinion? I suppose. Huh?

2:26:33I don't really know. I suppose I don't think they have a soul because they're below, they're lower than human culture. Why? How do you conclude that animal has no soul? What is your reason?

2:26:50Church teaching, but there is philosophy and science. So, first of all, if the soul... what is the symptoms of possessing the soul? Soul is the... Just like this table has no soul. That's right, yeah. I have soul.

2:27:12So what is the difference between this table and myself? So that I have... It's the part of you that goes back to God. The body is only a case and a box to house the stuff. Just to make a scientific study of life.

2:27:29What is the difference between this table and myself? You're a created creature by God. This is something made by man. Only that is the difference. You are created by God in His image. The image of God. This is just...

2:27:46This is also created by God. Can you create iron? Can you create iron? Then? This is created by God. Can you... this glass means this is silica? Can you create silica?

2:28:03So how you say that it is created? Man has simply transformed. But the creation is of God. You find iron from within the earth. So have you created that? Then what do you say? This is created by man.

2:28:28If that is your criterion, that what is created by God, it has... God's... so then everything is created by God. That is the statement in the Bhagavad-gītā.

2:28:42«Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate», janmādy asya yataḥ, the Vedānta. Everything is created by that. Bhagavad-gītā says: «bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca». But it is My energy.

2:29:01How we can say it is not created by God? Nothing is created except by God's energy. Anything is there. That is perfect vision. So if that is your definition, because it is not created by God, then you are mistaken.

2:29:25Everything is created by God. Now the iron is created by God. And the silica is created by God.

2:29:36And if you say that in this set I have created, or somebody has, man has created, the man's intelligence, who has created? God has created.

2:29:53So therefore, if my intelligence is created by God, and by my intelligence I created this table, then originally it is God's creation. How you can say it is man-made?

2:30:08And the scientists also say that we cannot create, we can simply transform. The iron was there and I had simply transformed the iron into a pipe set. I did not create the iron.

2:30:32So you cannot say that it is not God's creation. It is God's creation. Everything. Everything is God's creation. Krishna says: «sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya sambhavanti mūrtayaḥ, ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā».

2:30:51I am the father of all living entities in any form. Sarva-yoniṣu. In any species of life. Yes. He's the father. Bīja-giving father. He is. That means imperfect knowledge.

2:31:14So if an animal is living and I am living and I have soul, but he doesn't have soul... Oh, why he's not soul? Yes, so you say, because you have no sufficient knowledge. Now you have to study. How you say that it has no soul?

2:31:31What is your, uh, uh, what is called, criterion to prove that it has no soul? Uh, means animal premises. Yeah. You can't, uh, think and... Huh? Why he cannot think? Why he cannot think?

2:31:52Why, why do you have to take him to the slaughter? How he cries. Why he cannot think? He cries just like man. If you take a man and you take him to his slaughter, he also protests and cries, and he also does that.

2:32:06How do you say that he has no soul? Imperfect knowledge. That is the thing: rascals and fools with imperfect knowledge, they become teachers. That is the defect of the world. They have no perfect knowledge.

2:32:26First of all, you are saying that this animal has no soul, the man has soul; how you distinguish it? How you distinguish it? Soul, soul... presence of soul means consciousness.

2:32:46It's like if I pinch my body, there is pain, the consciousness. Similarly, you pinch any animal, he has also the same consciousness. So that is the proof of presence of soul.

2:33:02When the soul is not there, there is no more consciousness. Therefore, consciousness is the proof of the presence of soul. This is scientific. So the animals have consciousness and we have consciousness.

2:33:21Besides that, dealing, animal dealing, he also eats, you also eat, he also sleeps, you also sleep. The animal has sex life, you have got sex life. The animal is also afraid from the enemy, you are also afraid of the enemy.

2:33:40So where is difference in your dealing? I wonder if it says in the Bible anywhere that animals have no soul. Yes, that is that... that means it means that, uh, Bible is not authorized. It doesn't say that.

2:33:56It doesn't say that. Oh, they don't think... I think they have interpreted it. That was Aquinas. Aquinas had it. Yeah.

2:34:06Maybe Aristotle started, but Aquinas was a Christian who established, who tried to establish that only the human being has a soul. But the St. Augustine said it before Aquinas said. But they have an ulterior motive.

2:34:21They're already closed. That is the evolution. The evolution of the soul, transmigration of the soul. But they do not know it. They thinking that the body is evolving. Imperfect knowledge.

2:34:35I don't think Jesus ever said no animal has no soul. Why do they say like that? Because they're killing the animals. Because they're slaughtering the animals. That's so sinful that it is very difficult to convince.

2:34:53That's sinful, simply sinful. If the animal has no soul, then I can kill the animal. Therefore, I want to prove that the animal has no soul, even though it's foolishness. That is that. Jesus said the shadow, you know. Yeah.

2:35:17We talked about it for a long time and animal has got... so your argument is not very strong that he is not created by man. Anybody? Animal? Animal is not created by God? Only an animal is created by God.

2:35:37Yeah, but your child is also a lower form of humanity. Does it mean that he has no soul? Right? Your child. A child, a baby. A child, a baby. But he is in a lower form of humanity. If you cut his throat, he'll not protest.

2:36:01He does not know that "he's cutting my throat." But does it mean that he has no soul? The baby is less conscious than a cow. Yes. Less conscious than a cow. So therefore I can easily kill the baby, less than the cow.

2:36:15So why not kill the baby also? Do you see? Yes, you see the point. This is the problem when the people, they hear some teaching. When they hear some teaching, but there's no philosophy, then eventually they become doubtful.

2:36:40They must. Yes. Religion without philosophy is sentiment. And philosophy without religion is mental speculation. They must combine. Right philosophy? Right philosophy. That is Bhagavad-gītā.

2:37:03Most Christians say that they cannot see any purpose for animals being there other than for us to eat them. God put them there so that we could eat them. How do we distinguish it? They say it. They say it.

2:37:20But what does the Bible say? The Bible says the grains of the earth, the fruits of the trees, that God said you should eat that. And we talked about it earlier.

2:37:32That when there's nothing else to eat, then alright, then you're going to eat the fish. Another thing is, the Christians go to the church, they pray: "God, give us our daily bread."

Biblical prayers and divine symbols

2:37:44Nobody says: "God, give us our daily meat." God, give us our daily flesh. Nobody says. The bread is made from grains. So that is the proof that you should eat grain. Why is it specially meant, "God, give us our daily bread"?

2:38:08Why does he not say, "God, give us our daily chop"? When you use that kind of language, they begin to think. Yes. They don't think of it as no thinking power. That means less intelligence.

2:38:27Because it is calf, they are eating calf. They call it, uh, veal. Veal. When they eat the calf, they call the meat veal. Veal? Veal, yeah, veal. It means calf meat. But they don't think, "I'm eating calf."

2:38:42They think, "I'm eating veal." They separate the veal from the calf. Veal is just calf meat. Yep. Yep. Uh, calf meat. Yes. But here, the prayer is, "God, give us our daily bread." So, is the bread made of meat or flesh?

2:39:06Does it mean? By bread I mean, uh, necessity, the bare necessities. Necessity is everything. Stool is also necessity for the home. So now they say that the necessity is basically flesh.

2:39:23If flesh is the necessity, then why don't they say flesh? They think they cannot exist without meat. They think they cannot exist... bread? Why not meat? If it is an absolute necessity, then you directly ask for meat.

2:39:41Why are you asking for bread? But then why are there so many millions of people alive in India? And why are so many millions of people still alive in India, yes, if they don't get meat? Yes.

2:39:55They also argue that Christ gave the fish to eat. All these Marwari people, they're strictly vegetarian. Oh, yeah. I see. They're healthy. Oh, big. That's right.

2:40:12Rather than the Bengalis who eat fish and meat, lean and thin, all dead bodies. Nowadays especially. Almost all dead bodies. And the Marwaris are more intelligent now. Yes. Because they're vegetarians.

2:40:26Not only more intelligent, they're materially very opulent. Yes. We're going to New York on Wednesday afternoon. Uh, and I'm going to New York Wednesday afternoon. Yes. When that's the... tomorrow.

2:40:52It'll be back in five, six days. That's how we're discussing House of Lords. That would be very nice. He and Denys were discussing how to do it. That is very nice. Yes. These rascals should be brought in the court.

2:41:22How do you deny God? I, I shall go. They should be, sure, prosecuted. You know, why they profess that "I am a Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am Christian," if they have no understanding of God?

2:41:47We say religion means to understand God. What do you think? Religion without understanding of God? What is this religion? Religion is nothing without the understanding of it.

2:41:59And the Vatican, which is the, the greatest edifice, the greatest monument in Christian religion... The nearest concept they have to God is a dove.

2:42:11It is a huge altar, a very, very elaborate altar in the Vatican, and a very, very costly, uh, gold leaf and so much marble and precious metals and precious stones.

2:42:24And at the, the top of the altar, uh, the focal point is a dove. A dove. The bird. And this is a symbol of the Holy Ghost. In other words, the Supersoul. But they interpret the Supersoul as this bird. Yes. Just as a bird.

2:42:46The living entity and Supersoul are described as birds. Two birds sitting on the same tree. Yes. But used as one bird.

2:42:57What he is saying is that they, instead of putting Vishnu, instead of putting Vishnu with four arms, their only conception of God is a dove, he's saying, a bird. Because they have no understanding of it.

2:43:11Yes, they have not reached the ultimate goal. They do not know. But this bird conception of the Supersoul is there in the Upaniṣads. The Christians say you cannot paint God. You cannot paint Him.

2:43:30No, but the fact is they do not know how to paint. The defect is that you do not know. But one who knows the fact... Oh, in the Sistine Chapel, it's in the Vatican. In the Vatican. St. Peter's.

2:43:55Oh, St. Peter's Basilica is one thing, but in the Vatican there's also the Sistine Chapel. But the Holy Ghost is symbolized as a dove. Oh, that I...