Mystical Experience and God Consciousness
A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
Chapters
Mysticism and knowledge of God
This is Henri Bergson, additional notations.
Uh, Syamasundara, if you could move... I don't think it would be good to have something between me and the microphone, because it might... nothing between me and the microphone. What makes any difference?
Bergson maintained that God's reality can only be intuited by mystical experience. The creative effort is of God, if it is not God Himself. Knowledge of God leads to activity, not passivity. Knowledge of God is activity.
Just like bhakti. We are twenty-four hours active. Not that we are meditate and so, with this service. God says that anyone who preaches this message of Bhagavad-gītā... That is activity.
And then you have Caitanya Mahāprabhu's order that you all, all of you become guru. To become guru means activity, to train the disciples.
This consciousness movement is full of activity for giving, rendering service to God, Krishna. The word, the word "mystic" is not a very clear word. It can mean so many different things.
When he says, "God's reality can only be intuited by mystical experience," one doesn't really know what this means. One who does not know God, on him it is mystical. But one who knows God, he takes order from God.
Which is defined: ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-śīlanam means favorably working for satisfaction of God. But if one's idea of God is not clear, he thinks it is mystical.
But one who has got clear idea of God, clear order from God, then it is not mystical, it is practical.
He believed that mystics—he uses the word "mystics"—that mystics participate in God's love for mankind and aid the divine purpose. Yes. This is the real meaning of creative evolution. Yes.
Everyone is in ignorance due to long separation from God; in the material world, the living entity has forgotten his relationship with God. Therefore, his activities are only sense gratification, like the animals.
And when he is given lesson, instruction, how to become God-conscious, how to love God, and that is activity and that is real life. Otherwise it is animal life.
The religion is a kind of sentiment, but when the religious system is understood on the basis of good logic and philosophy, that becomes a perfect understanding of God.
Without philosophy, religious understanding is sentiment; that sentiment does not help anyone very much. It continues for some time, then people become disinterested in the matter of religion.
Religion means, as it is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, how one has learned to love God. Then it is religion. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje.
Adhokṣaja means we do not see God eye to eye at the present moment in our physical condition. But still, hearing about Him, we can develop our dormant love. That is the... and
Social order and spiritual transformation
Bergson saw the greatest obstacle to this creative evolution to be the struggle with materialism. And he felt that politics and economic reforms cannot help matters. No. It is a divine subject matter.
Politics or economic development can help, provided it is guided properly. Otherwise, if politics, economic development is aimed at understanding God and our relationship with God, then politics is all right.
Otherwise it does not help at all. So far as Vedic civilization is concerned, the society is divided into a division: varṇa and āśrama.
So the sannyāsī, the brāhmaṇa, they are meant for educating the others to develop dharma and God-consciousness.
And the kṣatriyas, they are to support these teachings of God-consciousness, because that is the objective of human life. But unfortunately they have forgotten everything.
They think simply, uh, taking care of the body and live comfortably and enjoy—such an even, that is animal civilization, that is not human civilization. He
felt that the spirit of mysticism must be kept alive by the fortunate few who know God until such time as a profound change in the material conditions imposed on humanity by nature should permit in spiritual matters of a profound transformation.
Yes, that is Krishna consciousness. Actually they are trying to change the whole situation. The perfect social, uh, order is as I already mentioned this.
That is perfect society when they have learned how to love God without any motive: behavior between the father and the son and the son and the father, uh, mother and the son.
That is real, real perfection, perfection of society. Godless society is animal society. It is not to be adored.
What could, what must he mean by "until such time as a profound change in the material conditions imposed on humanity by nature should permit in spiritual matters of a profound transformation"?
What kind of change a material condition would permit? Material condition is the four principles of bodily demand: eating, sleeping, sex and defense. This is material condition.
So in human society, just like at the present moment, they're simply interested in these four things. How to eat nicely, uh, palatable dishes, uh, and very nice table, chair and so on and so on. Afterwards, this is eating.
And similarly, living condition—uh, formerly people used to live very humbly, now they are living very, very big, big skyscraper buildings. But that is living. Similarly, sex.
Formerly also, uh, crude society also they have sex. They also they have sex. And to make gorgeous arrangement for sex, uh, to make the woman easily available, uh, freely available, nicely dressed. This is all simply sex.
Similarly, defense. Either you defend with crude weapons or atom bomb. But how are these conditions going to change? Change means along with these primary necessities of the body, one should understand: what is God?
What to do? What God has done. That is change. That can be done. Simply by... But how are they going to change in order to bring about a profound spiritual transformation? This is spiritual path. That's right. We agree.
We are also not neglecting the bodily necessities of life. But our main business is how to advance in these circumstances.
So this is not supported by the state or the leaders of the society; they think they are unnecessary because they are animals.
So that is the... in the leaders, yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhas tat tad evetaro janaḥ. That is it: if the leading man accepts that this is necessary, just like we say, "No illicit sex."
So if the state helps, it can stop immediately. Yeah, law-making. The state can immediately do it. No slaughterhouse. If somebody says that it is enforcement for a person who wants to eat meat and the state has stopped... No.
State at least can do this: that state is not going to maintain slaughterhouses. If you want to eat meat, you can kill an animal at your own house, but the state is not going to commit this sinful activity state-wise.
That is change. In every respect, no... state cannot maintain the manufacturing of the individual ones; he can prepare for himself, but he cannot sell. He cannot induce others to take. He can for his personal purpose take.
In that case, state is giving liberty. If you want, um, uh, meat-eating, then do it, but that is not encouragement, that is discouragement. That is Vedic injunction.
Vedic injunction is that, yes, you can have sex, but get yourself married properly, nice, gentlemanly, and live peacefully.
But sex will not be allowed unrestricted, intermingling of men and women and prostitution, brother. That state has to stop.
In this way, everything can be revolutionized and society will be completely in human civilization and God.
Nature of the spirit soul
That is what Bergson felt. He was Bergson was optimistic in that he felt that eventually the mystics through love will help mankind back to Godhead. He has used that word, "back to God." Well no, but "back to God." Oh.
I put "head" there. Yes. That is the real purpose of human life. Nature gives him the opportunity in the evolutionary process to get the human form of body. Now, here is a child.
He can read books, he can read Vedas, he can take instruction from the spiritual master. These opportunities are there. So that should be encouraged. That is human civilization.
Simply to keep him in darkness and that his body and bodily necessities of life is the only business, it is a very suicidal civilization. It is not civilization. It is animal status of life. Within
the world, Bergson sees nothing but constant unceasing change. He even sees ego change. He says, "If our existence were composed of separate states with an impassive ego to unite them, for us there would be no duration.
For an ego which does not change does not endure, and a psychic state which remains the same so long as it is not replaced by the following state does not endure either."
So he sees the psychic state of the individual in the ego and all that the ego contains as constantly changing. False ego, that "I am this body." So it has to be changed by education.
That you are not this body; then when you understand that he is a soul, then the activities of the spirit soul begin. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā, that is stated in Bhagavad- gītā.
That first of all he has to understand that he is not this material body. He is the spiritual. That's the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā. Dehino 'smin. Within this body, the soul is there. And that soul is Brahman, spiritual.
People even do not understand this. So they are in the animal status of life. But if he understands that he is not this body, then his struggle for existence to maintain the body stops.
Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā: if he thoroughly understands that he is not this body, then his unnecessary endeavor to keep the body in a comfortable position without, without executing the business of spiritual life, then...
Well, he stops that. So when one understands that he is a spiritual soul, so how to elevate the spirit soul to the highest platform, that will be the main business. So that is brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā.
Then he understands that not only I am spiritual, then everyone is spiritual. They are equal, samaḥ sarveṣu. Every spirit soul should be given... That is perfect understanding. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu.
Then the activities of devotion start. Everyone is engaged in devotional service, so that he gradually comes to the stage of loving God, premā. Premā pum-artho mahān. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has given this.
The success of human life is how to raise oneself to the platform of love of God; that is perfect. Otherwise it is not perfect.
So, concerning remembering and forgetting, Bergson writes, the cerebral mechanism is arranged just so as to drive back into the unconscious.
By unconscious they mean the subconscious, almost the whole of this past, and to admit beyond the threshold only that which can cast light on the present situation or further the action now being prepared, in short, only that which can give useful work.
So that, in other words, man utilizes only those memories or that knowledge which is immediately useful, and in this way man can function in the world.
What is the role of Krishna in this, uh, as the arranger of this cerebral mechanism? That is a machine. Just like this microphone. It's a machine. It has speaking loudly. It has nothing.
Machine has nothing to do with the voice. But it has the voice louder, so that we can—so far as the machine is concerned. Actually, the voice is different. Therefore, uh, our Veda is called śruti.
So in the śruti, the voice, the vibration of the voice, is proper, then the machine can help us to understand. But if there is no voice, what is the use of the machine? Just like a dead body.
The same brain is there, what is the use? The same ear is there. So it is not the brain that acts. It is the voice. It is the instruction which acts. Therefore we take in saṅkīrtana Krishna. So that is the Krishna's part.
Divine instruction and material karma
Krishna says, "Grains are most valuable."
When people become frustrated without any God and śāstra, and the so-called demonic leaders keep the society in darkness, at that time, to stop this demon talking nonsense and to raise the devotees who are intelligent, Krishna—that is Krishna's avatāra—and he left behind him instruction of Gītā so that his devotees may preach for the benefit of the society.
So it is not the brain, it is the— the instruction is important. So a human being has got the nice machine that he can take. But if the leaders are blind, they should not know what is the use of this brain.
Then it is useless. Uh, concerning remembering and forgetting, we were speaking of the cerebral mechanism.
In Bhagavad-gītā, doesn't Krishna say that He is the arranger of the cerebral mechanism which causes one to remember Him and forget Him? Since I bring, uh, I make one remember and one forget. Yes. He is the supreme power.
He can do that. So, if somebody wants to forget Krishna persistently, in his mind, if Krishna is in a status and devotees in a structure, one does not care. He persists to become a devotee.
Krishna is within the heart of everyone. So He gives him chance to become more and more so that he completely forgets his relationship with God. That is explained in another place. Kṣipāmy ajasram aśubhān.
In the 16th chapter we can find out. So that this rascal, uh, life after life, they remain rascal. But that is Krishna's punishment, that he is kept in perpetual darkness. But it is the mercy of Krishna's devotee. Stop.
He is so compassionate. That this rascal is in perpetual darkness. Let me try to lift him. Therefore, Bhaktivinoda Thakur said, "Vaishnava Thakur, tava kripa." Vaishnava devotee, kindly accept me as your dog.
Because Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says, "Chadiya vaishnava-seva," unless one who gets the shelter of Vaishnava, he perpetually remains in darkness.
Tān ahaṁ dviṣataḥ krūrān saṁsāreṣu narādhamān, narādhamān kṣipāmy ajasram aśubhāsv eva yoniṣu. "Those who are envious and mischievous, who are the lowest amongst men, are cast by Me into the ocean of material existence, into various demoniac species of life."
You want to forget? So apohanaṁ ca mattaḥ. The brain is there. But Krishna wants that this rascal should be punished to forget God. Then he will be punished more by the material nature. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī.
Māyā's business is to punish the demon. So māyā keeps him in demonic life so that he may be punished more and more. And Krishna keeps intelligence to devotee. Teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam.
One who is engaged in devotion, I try and sincerely. From within He is giving intelligence to, like this. Good life. Can one, uh, be forgetful of Krishna, uh, eternally? No. No. But eternally it is not possible.
That's like a father and son. Maybe circumstantially the son is separated from the father. But it is not possible to forget it. Sometimes he remembers his father. Father is always remembering this son.
And father is looking after the opportunity when the son becomes obedient to his order. So there is no personal particular. That's good news. Regarding karma and transmigration, Bergson writes: “What are we in fact?
What is our, what is our character if not the condensation of the history that we have lived from our birth?
Nay, even before our birth, since we bring with us prenatal dispositions, doubtless we think with only a small part of our past, but it is with our entire past, including the original bent of our soul, that we desire, will, and act.
Our past, then, as a whole, is made manifest to us in its impulse. It is felt in the form of tendency, although a small part of it only is known in the form of idea.”
That is, although we cannot recall much of the past, the present, our present state is determined. We cannot recall, that is a defect in our life.
Therefore, the literature is there to remind us; that opportunity is there in the human form of life to take advantage of this Vedic knowledge which is kept in the literature.
Just like Bhagavad-gītā or any Vedic literature. Especially Bhagavad-gītā is in the nutshell of our Vedic knowledge. So we have forgotten that; this forgetfulness is not perpetual.
He can be reminded and he can come to his real consciousness. That is our consciousness movement.
These rascals, they have forgotten God, Krishna, and they are thinking that we are the master of everything; the so-called scientists, they are decrying God: "Now we shall do everything independently." This is demonic.
So He has to remind it. Therefore, Shastras are there, sādhus are there, sādhu-śāstra-guru, guru is there. But you are not independent, you are foolishly thinking like that. You are under the kleshas somewhere.
So don't remain in this position, till your life in this fire, take instruction from Bhagavad-gītā, act accordingly, it will help you. Well, he sees that we are what we are today due to all of our activities in the past.
Yes. That is karma. According to our past karmas, we are in a particular position. So this position can be changed. It is not that it will continue.
That's what Krishna said: that you are suffering on account of your past misdeeds, the reaction, but this suffering is caused on account of your not surrendering unto Me. Now you surrender, I will stop all the reaction.
This offer is already there. But still we do not take advantage. That is our dog's obstinacy. And we are suffering. And we shall continue to suffer.
And from this, Bergson concludes that we are evolving, that we learn from an accumulation of experience, that we cannot, in a sense, repeat the same mistake twice.
He writes: "From this survival of the past it follows that consciousness cannot go through the same state twice.
Circumstances may still be the same, but they will but they will act no longer on the same person since they find him in a new moment of his history.
Our personality, which is being built up each instant with its accumulated experience, changes without ceasing. Thus our personality shoots, grows and ripens without ceasing."
No, there is no cessation because the soul is eternal, so his consciousness is also eternal. But it is changing according to the circumstances, association, time, place, and the party change. Therefore,
good association is value. Sādhu-saṅga, which is called sādhu-saṅga. Association with the devotees. By good association the consciousness can change from material to spiritual.
That is the Krishna consciousness movement: how to change the consciousness from matter to Krishna. So that requires guidance. The guidance is Krishna's instruction and the spiritual master.
Krishna is so kind that he has given us śāstra and sādhu and guru. So if we take advantage of them, then we become reformed, our life becomes successful.
There seems to be an inconsistency here when he says our personality, which is being built up with its accumulated experience—now, if personality is determined by experience and if death means a forgetting of our past experience, then a new personality must emerge when we take on a new body.
No.
Death and the cycle of rebirth
Your deeds in the past, you may forget, but Krishna does not forget. He therefore gives you a chance: that he wanted to do this, now here is the opportunity to do it.
At death, it's said that we take the manas—the body is shed. Yes. But the soul is not shed. Soul continues. It is reaction of past deeds. And even though he forgets what he has done in the past, Krishna is there.
He reminds that he wanted to do this, do it now. The person is the same, but the false personality changes then. Yes. So this personality can change to become perfect if he follows the instruction of Krishna.
Because obviously, say in my next life I'll be a different personality. Yes. Mm-hmm.
According to your work, karmaṇā-daiva-netreṇa, the body will be selected, not by you, but by superior authority, that this man has acted like this so he should get this birth.
If at death the soul takes the manas, intelligence, and ego with it into a new body, if that's the case, isn't it possible for the mind to actually remember its past lives?
Sometimes he remembers; there are many instances, just like Bharata Mahārāja, he got the body of an animal, but by the grace of Kṛṣṇa, he remembered everything of his past life.
Therefore, Kṛṣṇa said: mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca. That, and for Mahārāja Bharata, it is due to Kṛṣṇa's mercy.
He was a devotee, but he neglected his devotional service on account of being too much attached to a small deer. So at the time of death, he was thinking of the deer, he got the body of a deer.
But Kṛṣṇa, out of His great mercy, He reminded him that "You are in such a position. Now you have become a deer. So don't forget Me, My service." So he did that.
He was always staying with devotees, that "By my fault I've got this body. So let me remain in this life with the devotees."
So next life he took birth in a nice brāhmaṇa's family, but due to his past experience that "I fell off," he remained just like a dullard, not associated with anyone, that "I cannot fall again."
So even in the next birth, Kṛṣṇa can remind him of his past birth and everything.
Now, if, as Bergson says, our personality, which by definition would include the mind, the intelligence, the ego, and the soul also as a person, if it shoots, grows and ripens without ceasing, then why or how could the personality or the individual jīva soul return to a lower life form?
That is to say, how could a greater experience regress to a lesser experience? Everything is calculated at the time of death. That is nature's process.
That I was talking in the morning, that these boys, they're too much addicted to these water sports, twenty-four hours they are in that, in this water sport, that is creating a mentality to become an aquatic animal.
So naturally at the time of death you think of all these things, and nature will give you a body. Yes. That you cannot check. After that, he will complete the hundred-year cycle. He cannot dictate.
Right, these rascals do not understand. Therefore, they finish this visit. There is no light up there.
Now, how was it that a great personality like Indra, with his mind, intelligence, and ego all intact—how is it he could become a toad? Yes, it can be done.
So as long as you are materially existing, your thoughts are under the modes of material nature.
So sometimes the thoughts are in the mode of goodness, sometimes the thoughts are in the mode of passion, and sometimes there is a mode of ignorance, and you act accordingly. So up and down it is going on.
So, you know, to keep yourself on the standard platform, one should engage himself in devotional service.
That is confirmed in Bhagavad-gītā: māṁ ca yo 'vyabhicāreṇa bhakti-yogena sevate, sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya... māṁ ca yo 'vyabhicāreṇa bhakti-yogena... māṁ ca yo 'vyabhicāreṇa bhakti-yogena sevate, sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate. "One who engages in full devotional service, who does not fall down in any circumstance, at once transcends the modes of material nature and thus comes to the level of Brahman."
So one has to keep himself on the Brahman platform. Then there is no degree, no karmic regression. Therefore, we are trying to keep everyone twenty-four hours engaged in Krishna consciousness.
That would be what Bergson would call "creative evolution." Yeah. He saw change as maturation. He says, "We are seeking only the precise meaning that our consciousness gives to this word 'exist'.
And we find that for a conscious being, to exist is to change. To change is to mature. To mature is to go on creating oneself endlessly." But which you want, you are struggling, creating for the highest position.
But Krishna is giving you the idea. This is the highest position: sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. "You give up your so-called positions, you simply surrender unto Me, and I shall give you all protection."
This is the idea. But he denies that because he thinks, "Krishna is an ordinary human being, how can He give me the topmost position?" So he goes on with his plan-making.
So but this plan-making, if he's actually advancing, then after many, many births you'll come to that conclusion that everything is Kṛṣṇa: vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ.
But it happens after struggling for many, many births. So the best thing is that instead of waiting many, many births, if you take Kṛṣṇa's instruction immediately, we become perfect.
Why he should continue in ignorance and struggle and making plans? That is another foolishness. The bond—it's the bondage of habit. Huh? The bondage. Therefore Kṛṣṇa's instruction is there: "Do like this. Do like this."
Individuality and the supreme cause
In Creative Evolution, Bergson writes: "We may conclude then that individuality is never perfect, and that it is often difficult, sometimes impossible, to tell what is an individual and what is not, but that life nevertheless manifests a search for individuality as if it strove to constitute systems naturally isolated, naturally closed."
A search for the key? Uh, what does he mean by search for individuality? Isn't the individual always there? We are individuals. Parents...
It is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā in the second chapter that we are individuals now, we were individuals well in the past, and we shall continue to remain individuals in the future. So the individuality is always there.
But the living entity, we, uh, we are not, um, as big as Kṛṣṇa. Our intelligence is very, uh, mean, is very small. So therefore we forget what is our real constitutional position.
So to bring us to our original constitutional position, Kṛṣṇa and His instructions are there. The individuality is ours: past, present, and future. But when we forget Kṛṣṇa, make our own plan, then we suffer.
When we, uh, utilize our individuality properly, little independence, and follow Kṛṣṇa in the status as His dāsa, that's how life is perfect. This is the continuation of Bergson.
Uh, the Māyāvādī philosophers, they, uh, possessing poor fund of knowledge, they want to kill this individual. But that is not possible. Krishna says that you shall remain individual perpetually.
There is no question of stopping. Mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ jīva-loke sanātanaḥ. Perpetually you are individual, God is also individual. So, uh, to killing the individuality is not possible.
But this is a false notion that "I kill my individuality and become one with God, then I will be perfect." Uh, that is not possible. Uh, you cannot become one with God. You keep your individuality.
So even though for the time being you think that "I'm now merged in the existence of God," and on account of an individuality, you again fall down. And there's no need for a search for individuality.
He is always individual, but the trade... Concerning the creation, Bergson speaks of impulsion and attraction.
And he says the causal relation between God and the world is seen as an attraction when regarded from below, as an impulsion or a contact when regarded from above.
Therefore we perceive God as an efficient, that is a beginning cause, or as a final cause according to the point of view.
That is, we can see things either the creation coming from God or moving toward God depending on our viewpoint. No. Creation... God is always there before creation. And when the creation is finished, there is God.
So God is not one of the creation. Uh, uh, in the creation there are so many things coming out. So God is not one of the products of creation. Because He is creator.
He, uh, was before creation and He'll exist to continue, uh, after annihilation. This is the Vedic knowledge. Yes. This is, this is what he's saying.
That, uh, God is the Alpha, the beginning, and the Omega, the end, depending on our point of view. He also says the middle. Not on the point of view. It is always there.
But because we are imperfect, you are thinking like that. Uh, individually, we are imperfect, uh, God is always there and this cosmic manifestation is a temporary creation.
It is a chance for the individual soul to develop his consciousness. But if he does not take it, then at the annihilation, he remains in an unconscious position. And when again there is creation, he comes to consciousness.
So this is Bergson. He says: "If life realizes a plan, it ought to manifest a greater harmony the further it advances, just as the house shows a better and better idea of the architect, as stone is set upon stone.
If, on the contrary, the unity of life is to be found solely in the beginning, in the impetus that pushes it along the road of time, the harmony is not in front but behind.
The unity is given at the start as an impulsion, not placed at the end as an attraction." But this can be... it's life.
Suppose an artist is trying to improve this building; so if he takes instruction from an experienced artist how to improve, then it becomes easier. And if he tries himself, it takes a long, long time.
He should take the artistic idea from a person who is perfect in artistic idea, then his work will make progress very swiftly. Otherwise, he is already imperfect.
He may think this is better, but it may not be better because he's imperfect. So he has to take instruction from a perfect person, then the progress will be very swift.
Well, this can be taken from the individual point of view or from the idea that God is the architect of the universe, but according to the system of yugas, there's greater harmony in the beginning, and as the universe winds down, this harmony disintegrates.
Treta, Dvapara, and Kali-yuga. Yet there's a plan. Well, that's what is called... that is in nature.
First of all, something is created, then it develops, it stays for some time, then it becomes old, dwindling, and then finished. This is called six changes of ṣaḍ-vikāra of anything material.
But the spirit soul is not material. He is not subjected to all these changes. This is our practical experience: the body is changing, while the spirit soul is the same.
He remembers that "I had this body, the child's body, "I had this young boy's body." He remembered. Therefore he is eternal. The change is taking place of the body.
So therefore the soul has, uh, nothing to do with the bodily changes. He has got his perpetual duty, perpetual activity. That is the path of the service. So he has to be trained now in that perpetual duty.
Then he'll stop this process of bodily changes. He'll remain in his eternal body, spiritual body; that is going back to home, back to Godhead. So the creative evolution must necessarily be the evolution of the soul? No. No.
Soul is it. Soul is ever-existing. There is no question of evolution, or it is according to the body.
So long he is in the material existence and bodily concept of life, he's thinking that a better body is evolution and a lower body [is not].
But if his consciousness is changed, then there is no chance of changing different bodies. He remains in his eternal body.
Well, the basic contradiction, it seems, between Bergson and the Vedic version is that of the evolution of the universe.
Evolution of universe means—I've already explained that— anything material, it goes under six changes. So, uh, this, um, since its birth, it is increasing in volume. So that is material change.
Uh, it has nothing to do with the spiritual spirit, the soul. As we have got soul within this body, similarly the Kāraṇodakaśāyī Viṣṇu is the soul of this universe. He's not changing. The universe is changing.
The body is changing. Well, Bergson's theory seems to be that there's greater harmony being realized the further life advances or the further the universe goes on. Harmony is there, certainly.
That harmony—just like the child's body is harmonically changing into boy's body. Harmonically changes. There is harmony. But the change is there. So there's harmony at the beginning and harmony. That is God's law.
Everything is in harmony, material or spiritual. Everything is harmony. So if everything is in harmony, then evolution has an incidental meaning. The meaning is our harmony.
Just like, uh, from aquatics, one has to pick up insect, uh, uh, from aquatic one has to pick up, accept the body, uh, plants and trees, and then he has to accept what is inside. This is harmony.
Changing is there, but it is harmony.
Spiritual connection versus material isolation
Now, when one comes to accept the body of human beings, then his consciousness is developed. Now he can accept, uh, because he has got greater freedom than the animal.
So he has to make his choice whether he is going to stop this evolutionary process or he wants to remain in this evolution process. So if he takes instruction of Krishna, then he can stop this botheration of evolution.
And if he does not take, then anyways we'll find out these are, uh: «aśraddadhānāḥ puruṣā dharmasyāsya parantapa» «aśraddadhānāḥ puruṣā dharmasyāsya parantapa aprāpya māṃ» «nivartante mṛtyu-saṃsāra-vartmani». Those who are not faithful on the path of devotional service cannot attain Me, O conqueror of foes, but return to birth and death in this material world.
That is the chance of this human point. The everything is there.
If he takes the standard instruction and makes his choice, whether he shall continue the perpetual subordinate position under the laws of nature or he should become free by going back to home, back to Godhead.
That choice is here. So Krishna's instruction is there. And simply following the instruction one can become, uh, completely, um, detached from this cycle of birth and death. «tyaktvā dehaṃ punar janma naiti».
Simply by understanding Krishna. All Krishna is in a stack. And it's very satisfying. But after ending this body, no more material. That is perfect. Sometimes Bergson sounds like a sophist.
In his contention, he says man might be considered the reason for the existence of the entire organization of life on our planet.
Is man the end of evolution on this planet, or is he just simply the highest form of life now present on the planet? It's not the highest form of life. On this planet, he's speaking.
On this planet also there are different types of men. Not all men are in the same positions. I mean, there is an intelligent person, there
is a foolish person, there is this person. He is speaking of men in general, everybody. All mankind. All mankind? What do you do? Everyone is individual. Mm-hmm. What does it mean? This is not very good intelligence.
He sees the material worlds as being isolated.
He says there is then a bond between the worlds, but this bond may be regarded as infinitely loose in comparison with the mutual dependence which unites the parts of the same world among ourselves. Excuse me.
But unites the parts of the same world among themselves, so that it is not artificially for reasons of mere convenience that we isolate our solar system. Nature itself invites us to isolate it.
So this calls to mind the image of a prison house. The isolation of the world as far as man is concerned is the isolation imposed by material nature on the condition. He's isolated; he's thinking in the wrong way.
Just like in the prison house, every prisoner, every criminal is different from other criminals. So everyone has to suffer the consequence of his karma activity.
So every individual person is suffering or enjoying according to his past deeds. So there cannot be any combination. Then we forget the individuality. That is not possible. We feel isolation as individuals, and
not only is there isolation as individuals, but we feel isolated on this planet. Man cannot communicate with beings on other planets. That is an imperfectness.
Uh, what is the use of having communication with other planets? The other planets are also like these. They're individual persons. So what is the utility of communicating with the other planets? What is the utility?
What does he mean by that? Well, man has always had a desire. Basically, it's a desire for God, but a desire to communicate with something outside of this world, outside of this earth, something higher.
The higher principle is there. But what Gita, Krishna, why does he not communicate with Him? That is making perfect. But it's the use of, just like a tree. It has got many leaves, many branches.
So if one leaf communicates with other leaves, that will not help me. But if water is poured at the root of the tree, then everyone will participate. Sarva-hanam achyuta.
So if we communicate with God, Krishna, then automatically we understand other things. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam idaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati. Simply by knowing Krishna, we can understand everything. But
uh, they have sent rockets off into space. That is childish, I've already explained. That is childish. But uh, they cannot go. By use of, what is this radio, what do they call it?
Uh, by radio waves they try to listen to messages from outer space. That's all right, but what benefit will we get? Suppose it is not a very important thing.
If you hear how uh, the persons in other planets are talking, what benefit will you get? Is this isolation a characteristic only of the lower and middle planetary systems?
In the higher planetary systems, is there so much isolation? Isolation is always there. Even in this world, there is isolation, even in animals. The birds, uh, the crows, they remain together and the swans remain together.
There is isolation between the swans and the crows. So this isolation will continue because everyone is under different modes of material nature. There are three modes of material nature.
Multiplied three by three, it becomes nine, nine by nine, then it becomes eighty-one. So according to the association of different qualities, the isolation is there.
But when they come to Krishna consciousness and a spiritual platform, there is no more isolation. When everyone is engaged in the service of the Lord, there is no isolation.
Bergson sees the universe itself as expanding and evolving. He writes, "For the universe is not made, but is being made" continually. We also say that the universes came from the breathing of Mahā-Viṣṇu.
So just like we can imagine from breathing with the air, something may come in a very minute form, then it develops. Bigger. Bigger, bigger, bigger. Expanding.
One may be surprised how this universe has come from the breathing of the Lord.
But actually it is so. If we accept that the universe is increasing in length and breadth, then these values may come like particles and then begin to develop.
That is the process we see in childbirth, in the womb, it becomes just like a small pea, then it develops. Develops either an elephant or a bear. The body develops. So everything material is created and it is very small.
There is a seed, very small, but it develops a big tree, many trees. That is the way of nature. So that is the path that everything is increased. Not perpetually, to a certain extent.
Then it stops and then it dwindles and then it finishes. Yes, he didn't know. He says it is growing perhaps indefinitely. Perhaps he says, "No knowledge." By the addition of new worlds, that he... There's no way to know.
Knowledge. But new worlds are being added, but not indefinitely. No, new worlds are added and old worlds are subtracted. That is why the Vedas say.
the present-day material scientists, astronomers state, uh, one of the theories is that the universe is expanding, that the systems are going outward into space and are moving proportionately farther and farther from one another, just like raisins rising in dough.
When raisin bread is in the oven, the raisins, they go further and further and further apart as the dough expands. So is this? That expansion goes to a certain extent. Then the expansion stops. Then it becomes dwindling.
And then finished. Well, then Bergson is actually incorrect in saying that the universe is evolving toward some grand harmony. That is the way you said. What does he mean by disharmony?
The clay... I am increasing, your body is increasing, your child body is increasing. Everybody's body is increasing. So what is the... what does it mean by harmony?
It is increasing and it will dwindle and it will finish; that is material nature. If you say this process of increasing and dwindling is going on, that is harmony. There is no harm.
But individually everything is, uh, going under this process of increasing and decreasing and at the end finished.
Freedom from material designations
He gives an example that's something similar to the Vedas.
He speaks of a center from which whirls shoot out like rockets in a fireworks display, provided, however, that I do not present the center as a thing, but as a continuity of shooting out.
The already made... he, that is God, is unceasing life, action, and freedom. It is just like a wheel. A wheel is rotating.
That is... there are things, there is a hub, and in the center, what is the collar that supports the hub? Axle, spindle, axle, axle. So he is the axle. So the round is going on, but he is the center.
Everything is going on, but he is the center. Aham ādir hi devānām. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo. The central point is God. And another thing is just like a big wheel. And the big wheel has got so many parts.
It has got the ring, it has got this... it is going in force, but the, uh, action is the same always in the center.
Now this is the last point and I want to just for the record to correct this on Śyāmasundara's presentation because you took—you took exception to this and I believe that it was um— you wouldn't take exception to it, I don't know.
It says Bergson refers to the "essential function of the universe as being that of a machine for the making of gods." That is his misconception that—that I have explained, the wheel. The wheel is going on.
The wheel has a different part. But it is resting on the axis. No, but is the universe a machine for the making of gods in the sense that it's— No. This is wrong. They may say. The wheel is already depending on the axle.
The axle is already there. Without axle, the wheel cannot move. Not for the creation of God, not for the making of God, but for the making of small g gods, like demigods. You once are already there.
So there's no question of the making of God. No, no. That is wrong period. But when uh a man becomes Krishna conscious, could you say that uh he has become like a god or godlike?
Uh, he is godlessness— his diseased condition. So becomes uh in normal condition, that is Krishna consciousness. His normal life is Krishna consciousness. That is mukti. Mukti means liberation. What is that liberation?
A man is suffering from fever. So if the fever is stopped by medicine and treatment, uh, then he becomes in normal health. It does not mean that he—he changes his constitution.
He's the same man, but on account of fever he was talking nonsense in delirium. Delirium, yes. He's talking all nonsense. This diseased condition.
So he has to cure from the diseased condition, then he'll understand, uh, "this is my position." Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā, because immediately—I was talking intelligent nonsense.
So instead of a machine for the making of gods, it's more like a hospital for the curing of souls. Yes, yes. It is a hospital.
The disease that is described in Nārada-bhakti-sūtra: sarvopādhi- vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam. Nirmalam. So when he becomes free from all these designations... The designation begins with this body.
And the body accidentally born in Europe, he thinks, "I am European." He is born in America: "I am born in a Christian family, I am Christian." He's born in a Hindu family: "I am..." That is all misconception.
His real position is that "I am part and parcel of Krishna, eternal servant." That is prevalent. That is... that is the beginning of... that is Brahman-bhūta. Beginning of spiritual life.
So, uh, nothing... not that a man can be, uh, made to God. He's not God; he is part and parcel of God. He has to simply understand his position; that is mukti.
He is working under a different impression, that "I have this body," just like the other day with the philosopher Huxley. He's a philosopher, but he is proud of becoming an Englishman. Does he not say? So this is going on.
So-called philosophy, scientific advancement, but the central mistake is there, that he is thinking in terms of his body. That has to be corrected. Then it will be pure consciousness and nirmalam. Now let me get this right.
He doesn't say that it's a machine for the making... that man becomes... he's not saying that man becomes God. He never says that, but that a man may evolve to a state like unto the demigods. What is demigod?
There is no difference between a demigod and a man. Demigod is in a better position, that's all. That's like a High Court judge and a layman. Both of them are human beings. But a High Court judge is in a better position.
That's all. But both of them are human beings. But that's not the purpose of the universe. Everything. I am a human being, you are a human being. But you are in a better position.
The demigods, they are, on account of their higher qualities, they are in sattva-guṇa. And here, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. Suppose. But as soul, we are not subjected to any guṇa, either sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, or tamo-guṇa.
We are transcendent. So if we keep ourselves in that transcendental position, that is, engaged in devotional service, then we are above all this sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa. That is wanted. Then that is called mukti.
Muktiḥ hitvā anyathā rūpam. We are contaminated or conditioned on account of association with these three modes of material nature. And if we keep ourselves aloof from the association of the three modes, then we are mukta.
Higher, higher than the demigods. Yes. What is the demigod? They're also nothing in this material world. The devotees are not concerned to become a demigod. That is said by Prabodhānanda Sarasvatī:
«vidhi-mahendrādiś ca kīṭāyate». Vidhi means Lord Brahmā. Mahendra means the king Indra. So he says, "I think this Brahmā and Indra are just as good as the germs and small insects." He says that.
«Vidhi-mahendrādiś», you have to attain such a position that you think these Brahmā and Indra and demigods are as good as the insect. «Vidhi-mahendrādiś ca kīṭāyate». Kīṭa means a small insect.
So actually that is the position. Everyone has got a different type of body according to his karma, either Brahmā's body or an ant's body. So he's under material laws. So that is not the position of freedom.
One has to become above this material law. That is brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā. So anyone who has actually attained that position, what is the importance of Brahmā's body or Indra's body? He's not concerned with the body.
Therefore devotees are not interested to be elevated to the higher planetary system and heaven. They are not interested. They are interested in going back to home, back to Godhead. So the Buddhist position is different.
Just like we can see practically our Krishna consciousness movement, we have got so many... We are not perfect. Still, it is not our ambition how to become a Rockefeller or big rich man. This is not our ambition.
Is it our ambition? Like that. We don't care for this Rockefeller or big, big man. We want how to become a perfect devotee of Krishna. Because practically, our endeavor activities are not like the karmīs.
The karmīs are like, "How many motorcars I will possess? How many buildings I possess?" We do not. But we are constructing temples; that is for Krishna's service. We are getting money by Krishna's mercy.
We are increasing that money for Krishna's service. Not to that, to make a big bank balance and declare that we now have become as good as Rockefeller or this or that. We are not interested.
So a devotee is not at all interested to be promoted in the higher planetary system and become a demigod. That is not their business. Kita-janma-tathāstu bhakti... I don't care to become a Brahmā.
I better... I shall prefer to become a small ant in the house of a devotee. This is... I shall be very much satisfied remaining a small ant in the house of a devotee, a dog of a devotee.
But I don't want, forgetting Krishna, to become like Brahmā or Indra. This is... that's the end of perfection.