Anartha Nivritti. Lecture 5
Бхакти Вигьяна Госвами · Говардхан · 2025
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Opening prayers and invocation
Śrī-caitanya-mano-'bhīṣṭam sthāpitaṁ yena bhū-taye svayaṁ rūpaḥ kada mahyaṁ dadāti sva-padāntikam Tava antikam, pandeam śrī-guruṁ śrī-yuta-pada-kamalāṁ śrī-gurūn vaiṣṇavāṁś ca guru vaisnavansam Sreu
śrī-rūpaṁ sāgrajāṁ saha-gaṇa-la-sū-nānvītāṁ taṁ ca sūjīvaṁ sādvaitaṁ sāvadhūtaṁ parijana-sahitaṁ kṛṣṇa-caitanya-devaṁ Sadukam, Parejana Sarita, Krishna
śrī-rādhā-kṛṣṇa-pādān saha-gaṇa-lalitā-śrī-viśākhānvitāṁś ca Saganalita, Srivishakamsha, he kṛṣṇa karuṇā-sindho dīna-bandho jagat-pate gopeśa gopikā-kānta rādhā-kānta namo 'stu te Radakantamu tepaptakansyanavangi,
tapta-kāñcana-gauṅgāṅgi rādhe vṛndāvaneśvari vṛṣabhānu-sute devī praṇamāmi hari-priye vāñchā-kalpatarubhyaś ca kṛpā-sindhubhya eva ca patitānāṁ pāvanebhyo vaiṣṇavebhyo namo namaḥ
śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu-nityānanda śrī-advaita gadādhara śrīvāsādi-gaura-bhakta-vṛnda
Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare, Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare, Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, hare hare te.
mūkaṁ karoti vācālaṁ paṅguṁ laṅghayate girim yat-kṛpā tam ahaṁ vande śrī-gurṁ dīna-tāraṇam paramānandaṁ mādhavaṁ śrī-caitanya-īśvaram hariḥ oṁ tat sat.
Review of Madhurya Kadambini chapters
śrīmad-bhāgavatam purāṇam amalaṁ yad vaiṣṇavānāṁ priyaṁ yasmin pāramahaṁsyam ekam amalaṁ jñānaṁ paraṁ gīyate tatra jñāna-virāga-bhakti-sahitaṁ naiṣkarmyam ādiśyate tatra śṛṇvatāṁ paṭhataṁ vicārataṁ budhā bhaktyā viśeṣāt bhuvi
today we will mostly try to interact with you and answer your questions but I'll uh give a very brief description of what we have uh studied so far in Madhurya Kadamvani. We studied Mangalacharana and then we briefly
went through the first chapter of Madhurya Kadamvani where Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura establishes independent nature of bhakti, which is the personal Mahashakti, great energy of the Lord.
And then in the second chapter he explained uh how the first stages of uh spiritual development take place when we get the seed.
And we uh talked that this seed of devotional service is certain kind of intelligence, discriminating intelligence, which helps us to see the truth.
It's certain kind of Mati, the intelligence which facilitates our devotional progress.
And then because of this immediately the seed of bhakti starts sprouting and starts eradicating bad qualities and manifests some auspicious properties.
And then Shraddha comes, oh well, it's a simultaneous process, and we talked a lot about Shraddha.
How Shraddha starts with respect and develops into action combined with hope to achieve the ultimate goal of devotional service.
The Shraddha is only meaningful when it is coupled with these determined actions with clear understanding of the goal and very ardent hope to ultimately achieve this desired goal.
And then today we started the third shower, third chapter, which is Anartha Nibriti Eredication of Anarthas. And basically just two words about this chapter, which is ahead of us.
Anartas are called Anartas because in the ultimate sense they are not valuable but subjectively, they seem to be valuable to us.
It would not be difficult to get rid of Anartas if we would not consider them anarthas, this process is so painful and so difficult because we actually cling, we don't want to let them go because we
feel very much insecure without these anarthas. Anarthas are just programs which help us to exist in this material world.
And uh and they they give us some security, you know anger uh is actually very useful. What to speak about lust is very useful. It has multi purposes and it can be used in many different occasions.
So So greed is of course very useful. So from the material perspective, they're useful.
And they're viewed by us as something valuable, but from spiritual perspective they are completely useless because they are hindrances, obstacles for us to achieve paramartha, the highest artha, the highest achievement of our life.
And because in the beginning stages we do have spiritual outlook, spiritual understanding or spiritual point of view, then at least on a conscious level we think yes it's useless.
But still on the subconscious level we think no it's very useful. So therefore, this struggle, this tussle, uh this uh push and pull uh uh game is going on.
Uh we preach to us it's useless. And our false figure says I know better. How you can survive without this? You need this. So this is what is going on. And therefore we are disturbed.
We are disturbed because an artist disturb us because there are so many desires which
surface and actually what happens also at this moment of and this period of our spiritual development Bhajana Kriya means our conscious attempts to serve.
We surrender to guru, we take initiation, kṛṣṇa-dīkṣā di, śikṣā, we systematically take Shiksha.
And then because of this systematic śikṣā, we understand sadācāra, the rules of sadācāra, we understand what we're supposed to do. And we consciously try to serve.
But because uh it's still somewhat forced attitude because we're still deep down our enjoyers. The the resistance comes out and it's basically we start feeling uh or seeing negative qualities which is which are in us.
Oftentimes devotees say that before I started chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, I was much better.
Now I'm completely w— it's not that you were much better. You were just much more ignorant, then you didn't. You were not aware about the problems which you have.
So the process of devotional service helps us to see all the problems which we have. Much more clearly.
Besides that, we always hear that this is bad and this is bad, this will bring bad consequences. So we always hear this kind of preaching. So we see all these deficiencies and it's sometimes very painful.
It's like: you know, if you have a pot and the pot was used many times and you cooked there and uh you know it seemed to be quite uh clean.
But then when you start washing it, uh you know you look at this and uh it seems to be clean, but then you start washing it, and there is a lot of dirt which is coming from this pot.
Because it was before it stuck to the uh walls of this pot. But now because of this disturbance, uh we start seeing all these problems. So the the cleansing process it's um it's like disease or rather healing process.
Oftentimes healing, uh when you start healing it uh uh it is uh um combined with some uh crisis health crisis uh very rarely you heal uh without any problems, sometimes the disease becomes more acute.
Actually, it's a healing process, but the disease becomes more visible because of this purification procedures which you apply. And exactly the same thing is happening when we start doing devotional service.
Certain problems which were not visible become more visible and more acute. And therefore sometimes it's it's very painful. But uh don't worry, uh it will be it will be gone
uh if you're uh insistent enough and if you are uh if you manifest certain humility. And if you are in the society of devotees, it's very important to be in the in the society because we can always find some help.
So that's the process of purification from Anartas. We will see some details of this process and more exact description of what is going on.
Feasibility of intensive chanting retreats
But this is just brief and now we can uh we can try to answer your questions if you have some. Yes, Namni Priya. Please Guru Mahrachna
does it could nulli take retreat and electric sprint So the question is about the comparison which I gave that Shraddha is something like hunger. And when the hunger is strong, then it can digest anything.
And uh indeed, Shraddha is the hunger because when Shraddha is very strong, then we develop very strong desire to achieve the goal of Shastras
but the question is but I said if Stradha is very weak and we try to follow sadhana which is not really suitable for our level of Shraddha, then the result may be opposite.
And sometimes we can see it, people give very high maintain for some time very high standard of devotional practice, but then they give up give it up completely. You know, they are chanting two lakhs three lakh.
And the question is uh we have this program in uh Russian speaking part of Iskon which is called Namanishta. It's a short retreats, one-day retreat with one entrance and one day out of three days retreat.
When people chant as much as possible, two lakhs or whatever, or sometimes three lakhs within the day, they keep complete
mouna and they, uh, believe it or not, uh surrender their uh mobile phones uh and don't look at them. So it's a very severe austerity. And the question was is it suitable for everyone?
Because there were cases when people get this experience and the result was not positive. Mostly it's very positive when people feel the calmness of the mind and feel very intimate connection with the holy name.
But in many ka- in in some cases it's not, uh, people feel that they they kind of go back. So, uh, which level of śraddhā is suitable? Uh it's it's very difficult to define exactly on which level you should do it.
I would say that to dedicate one day completely to the holy name is safe. The problem comes much more acute when we give some vows. Sometimes people being enthusiastic give some vow and I will follow this.
Like in in the life of Śrīla Prabhupāda, one of his disciples, he decided to follow the vow of Thakur Haridas. He started living in the rice field in
Mayapur and chanting three lakhs a day. So for two weeks he was chanting three lakhs a day and then he disappeared somewhere.
So uh just to try to get this experience for one day and to see what happens uh I would say is advisable for everyone. But uh to keep it as a stable practice is probably not
a good idea before we're ready for this. So just one day is- it's okay.
Physical distance in guru relationship
Even three days you can try yes. It would be nice if somebody would watch the audience and and facilitate this.
Maharaj, you- the first thing you said that first we should satisfy guru with our service and humbleness, so that his heart melts and this knowledge and mercy came into our heart from his heart.
So should one be near Guru Maharaj for that or how will we know the physical proximity is not necessary. Bhakti does not depend on the material distance. Bhakti is the energy which is beyond time and space.
Therefore for bhakti it's it it can travel uh with this speed which is much higher than the speed of light. So any distance can be covered. Physical proximity is not important.
In fact, we can be physically very close, but at the same time our mind or our hearts can be very distant.
Sometimes people live in one apartment and they're not close at all, even though physically they live in the same place. So physical proximity is not a factor at all.
It's just a question of sincerity, and when you sincerely try and guru knows what you're doing and how you're trying, then you can download the mercy from his heart no problem. If you know the password which is
Tṛṇād api su-nīcena taror api sahiṣṇunā amāninā mānadena kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ. If this password is there, then you can get the mercy.
Is it possible for a disciple to from to say guru for a disciple to get bhakti-latā-bīja of pure devotion and another to not get it, and if yes what really determines what kind of seed we get?
No, if you're listening to a person, and if the person is uh pure, how you can get impure seed from a pure person?
What can happen is that you get the pure seed, but instead the weeds start growing in your heart and the pure seed is suppressed. The seed may be there, but it may not manifest so much.
It's not that somebody gets pure seed and somebody gets impure seed. Some people they just uh what they do they kind of m misuse the process of bhakti uh for uh for their own aggrandizement or for any other uh purposes.
So they may receive the seed or whatever, whatever their relationship with guru are, but at the same time something else growing within the heart. It's not that they received something uh improper from the guru. No.
They don't need to receive anything from uh from real guru because everything which they need is already there it's just manifests. It very much depends on on our sincerity and sincerity of purpose.
And therefore we have to be introspective.
All these descriptions in our śāstras, like Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu, Mādhurya-kādambinī, are there to help us to investigate Sindhu, Madhury Kadandini, are there to help us to investigate the heart, to see what is really going on. Without that it would be very difficult for us to understand the processes.
But this is a science which helps us to see what is going on, and we have to be self-analytical and reflect what is going on.
And of course, and especially what we need we need of the association us with some more advanced people who will also show us something which we would not be able to see.
Scriptural faith versus social faith
Krishna. Guru Maharaja, thank you very much for the class.
My question is can my question is can laukika-śraddhā and, uh, śāstrīya-śraddhā live in one heart simultaneously, or if there is śāstrīya-śraddhā, then there is no space for laukika- śraddhā?
Can it, people, when, when we analyze ourselves, it seems like we have both sometimes. Is it possible or how is it in reality? Uh like uh uh it's
possible because we're very expert in uh the question is, uh, is it possible for both laukika-śraddhā or conventional śraddhā and śāstrīya- śraddhā to live simultaneously within our heart?
Yes, it's definitely possible, uh, because we are very expert in, uh, crossbreeding our śraddhās. We think that we will make some special breed of Shraddha. So we have some sort of hybrid Shraddha with some elements of Shastra and some elements of logic
superstition, some sort of logic understanding. But if we study śāstra, ultimately this logical element will be eradicated from all, Maharaja. Uh, this is regarding guru-tattva.
Uh we hear Guru is as good as God. So I just wanted to check because we also know that Guru is not uh the three qualities of God omniscient, omnipresence and omnipotent. It does at least it doesn't seem that Guru has one. So in what context Guru is as good as God?
Is it that when he gives us scriptural uh messages, scriptural instruction based on instruction based on scriptures, it is as good as God giving it to us, and that's how we should follow it.
And in what context it is, guru is not as good as God?
Is it like when he talks about some kind of like when Prabhupada spoke about certain things about, you know, rush, war between Russia and, uh, US, certain things didn't happen.
So because this is a question that has been there for many people give some elaborate clarification to be valued. Yeah. He wrote a beautiful book, uh Guru and His Grace, where he explains that
Guru Tattva is the most difficult tattva because uh it's one of the most difficult like Śiva Tattva also.
Because uh it's uh the combination of both he says that there is this uh materials, so to speak, feature of the personality and the spiritual feature.
So when we say that Guru is as good as God, the understanding is that we should view that it is Krishna himself who is acting through this particular person.
the Krishna himself because you know Krishna is not really bold enough to come in our life. Therefore he sends his representative and see the result.
We know that he he sent Jesus Christ and what they did to him so safe to come to this material. So the system is actually there uh for us to rehearse the pure relationship.
And therefore, it's very important for us to see to view him in this light because otherwise we will of course talk about this tomorrow more.
But uh we know that he's not God and at the same time uh we we view him as God because we see that God is acting through this particular person. He is using uh him as an instrument and I have to look at him.
And that's actually the glory of Vedic culture, because Vedic culture not only talks about Guru is God, Vedic culture also says Pitri Deva Bhava, Matri Deva Bhava, Acharya Deva Bhava.
So uh Shastra says you have to see your father as God. Does it mean that he's God? No, he's not God.
But you look at him and you try not to see his conditioned nature but you see the manifestation of God which gives you protection. Why should we look at our Father as God?
Because He is functioning as God in our life. He's protecting us, He's giving us intelligence, he helps us to be the proper person to if if he is proper father.
In the same way, mother, she's also uh fulfilling certain functions which are the functions of ultimately of God because only He has this Palana Shakti, the Shakti to protect and the Shakti to nourish.
So, in the same way, Guru, Guru is God because we should view him as God because He gives the transcendental knowledge.
Unless we really understand clearly that he gives us this knowledge and the knowledge is coming from him we will not receive the pure knowledge. To receive the pure knowledge with the experience.
Because it's not just theoretical knowledge, it's the knowledge which is deepened, made more profound by the realization of the particular person.
So to receive it properly we have to view and to have this certain attitude towards the spiritual master to receive his experience and his knowledge.
But at the same time, yes, Guru may have some conditioned features in his personality, as much as our father has some conditioned feature.
But we just we just don't interact with this side of Guru. We don't want to interact with the side of Guru. If this understanding is very clearly established, then the society runs smoothly, you know.
Our parents should be viewed properly with proper respect. And then we get protection from them. Because if we don't behave properly, we don't get what we need to get from them.
In a similar way, if a disciple does not behave properly towards the guru, he cheats himself. He will not get what he could get. He will not get what Krishna wants him to get through this particular person.
It's not without a reason, not just by accident, you come in contact with this person, you develop faith in this person.
So if you behave properly, if you function in this relationship properly as a disciple, then the Guru will also open his heart and give. Or Krishna, rather Krishna from his heart will give what you need.
So when we talk about the relationship between Guru and Disciple, there is always the third party involved. The third party is God. So He is there in the heart of Guru and in your heart, and He is guiding.
And sometimes, oftentimes it is like this, you know, you you have some question, you're pondering, you have some doubt, and then you just uh click uh and some lecture is there, and all of a sudden here you are, the answer is right there.
Uh it's not that guru is sitting there and saying, let me guide him to make the proper to push the proper button. No, it's Krishna. Krishna within your heart. And it's uh it's really it's really happening. Krishna is there.
We don't see he Krishna is very tricky, he is hiding himself, but he's there, he's everywhere.
Mechanics of first and second initiation
And if he sees that we're sincere in this relationship, he will arrange and he will get you whatever you need.
Maharaj, I recently I was hearing one lecture, uh, of yours, and you are mentioning about that the seed of this particular seed is given by diksha-guru and you have given one example that first first initiation and second initiations.
And in your talk you have mentioned it's not necessary that even in the presence of the spiritual masters that first and second initiation can be taken from the same group.
And you have given example that one of the disciples of Niranjana Swami Maharaj approached his name, Gour Govinda Maharaj, and he had given him second initiation.
So, Maharaj, there is a lot of confusion regarding this, because in the current practices of ISKCON movement we don't see it as a general practice. So what is the philosophical understanding for this, Maharaj, if you can elaborate?
There is harinam diksha when we receive harinam and the holy name, uh, together with beads uh and new name, and there is mantra diksha, and it's there are different stages of the same process of diksha.
Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura re-established now sampradaya, this pañca- saṁskāra which is very prominent in Śrī Sampradāya, that tapa, puṇḍra and nāma and then mantra and then finally yaga.
So these five elements, they're all elements of diksha, the elements of the same process, which basically what Diksha means, Diksha means you receive certain qualification from the Guru. You become Diksit.
Dīkṣit means you become qualified to perform sadhana.
Like in traditional Vedic culture, children, they get diksha from a guru when they are seven years old or ten years old. And that's basically the sign that they are qualified now to study Vedas.
So diksha also has the similar nature. First you receive holy name from a guru and it basically means that Guru feels that you're qualified to start practicing this chanting of the holy name.
But then when you progress a little further, you can receive
mantra, and mantra means the next stage of your qualification, you start more consciously chant a mantra to purify your heart from all the anarthas and to ultimately chant the pure holy name.
So it could be given by different people. Like, for example, in Gauḍīya Maṭha, they don't place too much emphasis in the first initiation. For them, Diksha is the second initiation.
Śrīla Prabhupāda, of course, he placed a lot of emphasis on the first initiation as well.
But still, it's a different element and it could be it's not it's not against it is not against our culture. We can have somebody as a Nam Guru and somebody as mantra guru.
Usually it is like this that somebody who gives us the holy name he also can give us mantra and should give us mantra. But in some cases it may be different people.
There is a beautiful story in Sri Sampradaya in this connection. The story is described in one of the commentaries to Devya Prabhanta, to Namalvar hymns.
So the story is like this: there was one Guru, Vaishnav, who gave Diksha to a disciple, Pancha Samskara.
And then somehow the disciple became a little restless and doubtful and he approached another Mahabhagata and received another Diksha from him.
And then little later this first guru found out, no no, uh little later this second guru found out that he was the second one and the first one already gave Diksha.
So he came to the first guru started begging from him forgiveness. Please forgive me. I didn't know that you already gave Diksha and I committed this
aparadha and the first guru said no no it's very good that you gave him diksha because to pull this guy from the well which he is in it's better if we together Otherwise it's difficult. So what's wrong with it? Yes.
...1ere
Scriptural faith versus blind belief
Uh, new So
the question is uh then uh we sometimes say that other people or Christian people they have blind faith, even though they also have their scriptures and uh we have our scriptures and we also are supposed to believe in our scriptures. What is the difference between their faith and our faith?
Both have scriptures and both are supposed to believe completely without any questions in the statements of the scriptures. What is the difference between us? Why do we say that our faith is not blind?
Well, uh I try to explain the process of developing the proper scriptural faith. This process in other traditions to believe in something unquestion without any questions is the entrance ticket. You cannot go anywhere.
First, you have to allege yourself to a certain set of beliefs. Without this allegiance to a certain set of beliefs, you are nowhere.
It's not like this in our Vaishnava tradition, we don't have to pledge allegiance to a certain set of beliefs. We do have a very beautifully formed set of beliefs.
But it's not that this is the entrance ticket into the realm of practice and everything else.
We develop some respect towards Guru and then we start hearing and we start clarifying the doubts and Guru will explain with logic and with rationale what is behind this something which we you know again we don't have to believe in anything blindly because it is stressed very much that we have to dissipate our doubts.
Blind belief means that I have to believe even though I I have so much doubts, but I have to believe because if I don't believe I will go to hell. It's never said in our tradition that if you don't believe you go to hell.
If you don't believe you should just ask and clarify uh the doubt which you have and get rid of the doubt. And if you're not satisfied, go to somebody else and uh you will get the proper explanation.
And it's it's based on logic. Yeah, there are some certain things which we cannot prove by logic and by experiment, definitely. But still they are very logical and they're very structural.
And it's not against. it's very interesting. Śrīla Jīva Gosvāmī in Tattva-sandarbha, He explains that the main pramana, the main means of knowing the truth is śabdaḥ, revelation.
But then he says and there are subsidiary, there are secondary means for knowing the truth. Because how you can know the truth about spiritual matters? You cannot know it by your senses, you cannot know by logic.
The only thing, uh the only method or the process by which you can know something about transcendental matters is what is revealed in the scriptures.
śrīla, very interestingly, he says that still pratyakṣa and anumāna, experimentation or sensory confirmation and logic, they should also play a very important role.
And if if there is they have to they have to be there. They have to confirm.
And then he says that there is a lot of that all these transcendental things they manifest to our senses and we can have some experimental proof of this.
He says that uh you know he he gives certain examples like uh he he explains that Ayurveda. That's a good example.
And Śrīla Jīva Gosvāmī himself gives this example. He says nobody knows what pitta, kapha, and And what really is in reality. You cannot really identify this as a substance. Still, experimentally it works.
The whole system really works if you apply the science properly.
In the same way, spiritual science also, even though it operates with some terms or categories which are not really available directly to all senses still we can see how it works. So we don't have to believe blindly.
But the proper face, proper reverence should be there. Today one Maharaj came to me Ramabhadra Pri knows who he is. And he told me a beautiful story. A really beautiful story. I was enthralled. How this Vedic science works.
So he said that he was a temple president somewhere in Mumbai. And there were some difficulties with the construction of the temple.
And he decided just to check one Nādi astrologer who samhita astrologer who just to check and he was not really sure whether it's true or not, all these strange things.
So he came to an astrologer, and the astrologer identified by his thumb. He said everything correctly. And then he starts reading what is there in the chart.
And the first thing which is which he said is that he is coming to ask something about the temple. And tell him to go back and to come back only on Rahini Nakshatra, which is Nakshatra of Krishna, after offering lamp to Krishna and begging forgiveness because he didn't come to know the truth, he came to check you.
And therefore don't tell him anything. So he went away with a lot of conviction offered lamp to Krishna, begged forgiveness, came back and got the reading.
So So Krishna knows what he is doing. And he knows how to dissipate our doubts. Yes. But two questions. This is one of your lectures which you online,
where you mentioned about Shraddha that Shradha means not to have a faith in them, those who have experience.
Śraddhā means to personally experience the emotions of the bhakti, then one remains fixed on the path of bhakti level. Uh, can we repeat again? Yeah, but like śraddhā means, uh, you explained
that time, that just because someone has a faith... I have a faith on them, those go by experience or not. Okay.
So that's not the proper śraddhā as compared to if personally the individual experiences those emotions of the bhakti, then he will be more fixed up.
Yeah but initially to get the new experience you need to have faith. You need to have faith in somebody who is more experienced. And therefore, it's it's proper.
First, we see somebody and we see that he has more experience, spiritual experience, and we trust him. And by trusting him we develop faith and we ask him what to do and then we start acting and then we obtain faith.
But ultimately, the purpose of this is to get the experience. But initially, when we don't have experience, we have to trust somebody. So therefore, śraddhā is trust. And, but it's not blind trust. Trust is never blind.
Trust is the emotion which appears within our heart when we are convinced.
So śraddhā is developing over a period of time when we see that somebody really has some spiritual experience which I want to have and therefore we develop trust in him and follow the path which he indicates to us. Yeah.
Seeking mercy from spiritual masters
Uh, next, please give to Champaka Latā after that. Champaka not Latā, Champaka Mālā.
Hare Krishna Maharaj Maharaj had mentioned that getting the mercy of a spiritual master is very tricky. One should please the spiritual master and not just keep asking for mercy.
Does it does this imply that mercy will come without us asking for it, or should one not ask for mercy from the spiritual master? Instead of us,
We all have this experience if somebody is uh Annoying us by asking us all the time something. We may give him something just to get rid of him. Because he's an annoyance.
So if his disciple is an annoyance, yeah Guru can give him something to just to uh not to disturb his bhajan.
But uh if Guru sees how sincerely somebody is trying to serve him without any desire to get, then he will automatically give. So it depends how intelligent you are.
If you are intelligent you will not ask. Then you will get more. If the spiritual master has physically disappeared from the uh from It's not a question of physical presence.
Spiritual master is still there, he's still guiding. And it's actually a question because spiritual master is manifestation of God.
And if we really dedicated to spiritual master, then we can see how spiritual master is guiding us even through different people.
Like Śrīla Prabhupāda, you know, some conductor in the train told him, Why are you distributing these magazines? People will read magazines and then throw them in the garbage. You should read books.
And the Prabhupāda's reaction was: this is my spiritual master is talking to me. He didn't take it lightly, he didn't take, you know, who you think you are, I'm a pure devotee, you know.
No, his reaction was my spiritual master is talking to this person because he was so sensitive to feel how the this and and therefore he he could feel the guidance of God which is coming through his spiritual master manifested in different ways. So
um yesterday you explained that Lakika Shradha is based in some miracles and some superstition.
But when I think of Shastriya Shra, or when I think of Krishna consciousness, it seems like a lot of our Krishna consciousness is based in miracle.
Even the fact that we're all here and we're trying to practice Krishna consciousness is because we felt something.
And if we think what is a miracle, it's something that cannot be explained by uh laws of nature or science.
But and uh and I find myself even though I try to understand and I study Shastra but I'm so dependent on some miracle to feel something, not just understand something with with my mind.
Um so is it wrong to kind of I I find myself I I chant and I I think you know Krishna if you just give me a moment where I I feel something. It will it will make all of my material desires naturally go away a little bit more and a little bit more and with these little moments we we can um deepen our practice.
So is it wrong to think that I pray for that? There are good miracles and bad miracles. The miracles which you are mentioning are good miracles, no problem. Yeah, we definitely we definitely see this is the difference.
Miracles are very important for those people who have Shastriya Shraddha, and miracles are important for those people who have laukika-śraddhā.
But the difference between them, any person who uh pursues spiritual life, who practice some spiritual practice, he hopes for miracles. Definitely.
We want to interact with the highest forces, we want to feel the presence of Krishna in our life.
The difference is that those who have strong śāstrīya-śraddhā hope for miracles, but they they're not dependent on miracles.
Whether miracles happen or not, they still practice and uh when miracles don't happen then they they practice even harder than when when the miracles happen. Because they they understand, yes, something is wrong with me.
So and when the miracles come, they feel it as a sign of love of God. He noticed me, he is not indifferent to me. But for people who don't have strong śāstrīya-śraddhā, they're very much dependent on miracle.
If miracle doesn't happen, then you know why should I practice? They're more or less blackmailing God.
No miracle, you know, what kind of God you are? they become completely demotivated and uh if miracle doesn't happen then they kind of concoct miracle. They agitate themselves and then they imagine some miracle to happen or whatever it is.
So there is a difference. So these good miracles, no problem. Hare Krishna.
Audible and silent mantra chanting
Yes. I mean please accept my humble obeisance. Yes. Um, Kurmaraja, I had one doubt. Um you can clear this. It's about chanting. Um so in uh I have a lot of doubts about chanting.
So, uh, uh, we are always, uh, encouraged to bhajan with a group of devotees. Uh, but some Haribhaktivilāsa I have actually read that, uh, Sanātana Gosvāmī Maharaj, uh, has said that mantra should not be revealed.
And uh it's mostly it's on sink and uh anything else which is Archana or preparing uh garland for the Lord is considered that's niva which can be done with a group of devotees. The name of spiritual. Yeah.
So how will we understand? Because we are always being told that chant lovely cry like how a kid cries to his mother. It's um uh th there are different uh instructions for different levels of practitioners.
Manasik japa, Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī very neutrally explains that there is mānasika japa, that there is upāṁśu and then there is vācika japa, audible. And Śrīla Prabhupāda stressed that in the beginning our chanting should be audible because in the beginning our mind is too loud and we have to loudly say the holy name to kind of overcome the loud voice of our mind.
But when the mind becomes a little more quiet, the chanting in the mind is definitely an authorized process. And when we are together with the group of devotees, it helps us externally.
See, mantra should not be revealed, but holy name is not mantra. Holy name is the name.
We should not pronounce loudly Gāyatrī mantra. It's not like in a beach in Goa where you know Oṁ bhūr bhuvaḥ svaḥ where the mantras are loudly chanted. It it's useless. It doesn't. It's not the proper culture.
So mantras should not be chanted loudly. But holy name can be chanted loudly and should be chanted loudly when we chant kirtan, we loudly chant.
And when we chant japa, we can also loudly chant, but at one point we don't have to do it loudly. And it very much depends on individual taste.
If you feel more immersion into chanting japa when you are alone, then there is no need for you to be with other devotees. But if you feel more enlivened in the presence of other devotees,
seeing how they are trying to concentrate and trying to do it properly, then it's very good to chant together with them. And in Vraj there are many caves like holes in the earth where great devotees would
go to be free from disturbances like Bhugarbha Gosvāmī. Bhugarbha Gosvāmī, he's called Bhugarbha because he was under the surface of earth.
And he was mostly practicing, uh, japa on the niṣṭhā because he didn't want to be disturbed. But we are not Bhūgarbha Gosvāmīs yet, so we should not imitate. I guess we should finish for now. Oh okay.
I I saw the sign of desperation. Okay. Okay. Okay yes. Okay.
Knowledge as a foundation for practice
Yes.
Uh, Gurumārāja, I had a, uh, question about, uh, Bhaktamāla. So we, uh, we, we learned from Bhaktamāla about how different bhaktas have achieved the love of God, and most, most of the, um, kathās uh, focus on nurturing the bhāva, uh, in terms of nurturing the bhāva. The Lord is bhakta-vatsala Janārdana. So nurturing the bhāva, so, uh, you know, when we look at, uh, kathās of Gorakumbha, Gulsidas or, uh, Mirabai, or, uh, you know, various different ācāryas Sidasi or uh Mirabai or uh you know various different charias
that we can see, they're all focused on nurturing the bhāva to achieve that prema. You know, I even the gopis of Vṛndāvana and, uh, you know, the what, so the question
I have is, Mahārāja, I don't see they have studied śāstras as scientifically as we go in detail. But the major focus remains on actually nurturing the bhāva. So what should be more important?
Is it that the japa leads you to bhāva? First of all these people were very knowledgeable uh, they studied śāstra, and you, you shouldn't worry about them.
They knew Sanskrit; they got the proper education. Uh, they did study śāstra. The śāstra, uh, was the common foundation for anyone in Vedic culture.
Definitely, Mirabai was from a very cultured tradition, and Tulsidas was also very knowledgeable. We can also, sometimes it's not mentioned in Bhaktamāla because the Bhaktamāla biographical sketches are very short.
So it's not repeated all the time, but the very fact that Tulsidas wrote such a beautiful composition means that he was very, very knowledgeable.
So the knowledge is necessary, but it should not be, of course, it's not the end in itself. Knowledge creates certain foundation upon which we should build by properly practicing.
So why do we need knowledge? We need knowledge actually to practice properly. Ultimately, you are right. The emphasis should be not on knowledge itself, but on the proper intense practice.
But the point is that you can only practice intensely without deviations or without distractions in your mind if you're completely convinced inside.
So this conviction is there to help you to concentrate on following the practice. So that's how it works. It's not the end in itself, uh, it's just a means, uh, to help us to concentrate.
And if you can concentrate on practice without knowledge, no problem, good luck. So do it. Ah, but, but in a normal case, we need to to be fixed by studying shastra.
Initiations from multiple spiritual masters
Okay, the last one. Thank you, Maharaj. Maharaj, I have one small question about the story which you mentioned about the, uh, the disciple who got re-initiated by another guru. Uh, and what I was-- not re-initiated.
He got the second initiation, and, uh,, uh, he wasn't-- he got the first initiation from Niranjana Maharaj and the second initi--, and he wanted-- he developed very strong faith in Gour Govinda Maharaj.
And, uh, Niranjana Maharaj said to this particular person, you can go to him and get from him. You know, don't consider me.
And when Gour Govinda Maharaj met him, he said, no, no, Niranjana Maharaj is still your guru, he's your śikṣā-guru, and I'll give you dīkṣā. So, and he very strongly insisted that Niranjana Maharaj is still your Guru and you should maintain proper disciple relationship with him.
O Sampradaya, okay. Yeah. So this is an anecdote in the sense that uh it's a rare occasion. It should not be there.
And therefore the second guru became very afraid that he committed an aparādha and therefore he came and he started begging forgiveness. But the first guru said, no problem, let's pull him out together.
So, but it's, uh, definitely, it's against, against the etiquette, uh but some exceptions could be there. Okay. Thank you very much. Śrīla Prabhupāda kī jaya!