Psychological effects of the offences, lecture 2. Answer the questions
Бхакти Вигьяна Госвами · Бомбей · 2015
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Qualities to counteract offenses
Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Kishna Kishna Hare Hare Redam Hare Ram Ram Ramare.
So just to uh wind up the whole presentation I just want to mention one more little point and then we can discuss this because the naturally naturally the question comes what to do. You know, if we see these things, if we see this sort of tendencies within our heart, what to do.
And Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura again in one of his articles in Satya Tatra-samani he says that there are only two qualities which are necessary to perform devotional service.
He says one is simplicity, another one is determination. If you want to counteract these offenses, these two qualities are very important. Simplicity means that you are not pretentious.
You try to be as straightforward as possible, you are not trying to hide your own deficiencies and uh faults and determination, you continue doing the practice of devotional service, and by these two
qualities, simplicity and determination, you will be able to really overcome all these problems which are as I said in the very beginning there in everyone's heart to different extents to
different you know it may be different in different people some people are more simple and more capable of performing bhakti properly, some are a little more crooked by nature, but still these two qualities are enough.
We try to consciously bring ourselves to this level of bhakti. Definitely Krishna will help us to overcome this. So that's that's it if there are any questions it's one known for the first time, but thank you
for this um sovereign uh the descriptions like that, nobody will watch horror movies in this con. Nobody will watch horror movies in this car. Analyzing these kind of things in such a depth.
I remember hearing the same analysis from a few years ago and we had a discussion with devotees about these five stages. And it appeared to us that the actual sequence is exactly backwards,
that it starts from being proud about one's bhakti, and then it progresses to become a slight amount of world service, observing things which are favorable,
and then developing a lack of faith, and then as a last state of degradation, pretentiousness, or because Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura says that the chala is a show, someone who pretends to be a devotee, but truly is not.
And one happiness for that could be that the examples given by Jīva Gosvāmī in these different stages of degradation, they uh I think at their worst, in the
case of the gauda faction doesn't seem to be more demonic than the devotee after all, I
guess you can look at this from different points of view, but the way Jīva Gosvāmī explains it, I think it's the way I describe it now. Because he gives very extreme examples, no doubt about it.
But if we take his explanation of coutelium or the crookedness which appears in the heart that's very clear that this is something which is the first you know first symptom that you're doing something wrong.
You you feel that, you know, initially when people come to Krishna Consciousness Movement they're very sincere in the sense that they really you know worship uh those senior devotees and uh you know guru of course and they have this sort of sincerity but uh we can see how this attitude uh sometimes very imperceptibly changes to the opposite attitude when and you know the first stage is that externally you're still doing the same but internally you are you know you are not uh the same.
So of course uh you know Duryodhana is outright demon definitely and he's he's an offender. But it's it's interesting that he says, we love you, Krishna, and you know he does all this sort of arrangement.
But I still think that uh it's uh uh it's the way uh it appeals to me more uh the way uh it is because that um even even the way he describes aśraddhā, lack of faith or you know slackening of the faith.
But uh I guess you can look at this from different points of view. Depending what you want to prove or what you want what you want to show basically, what you want to indicate. Yes.
Just uh just to continue this morning, I was looking up at this translation here in Jadurani Swami quotes from Skanda Purana where uh it just said that for those who are affected with crookedness, the Lord doesn't accept anything from that at all.
Yeah, but at the same time, He says this hundredth offense is crookedness, you lose satyam, thousandth offense is you lose your ability to perform bhakti 10,000 offences you're finished.
Comparison with Madhurya-kadambini
Yes, Maharaj.
I'm just wondering in the uh Madhuri-kādambinī, Bhaktivinoda Thakura, in the state of vaiṣṇava-bhajana-kriyā, he goes over something that seems a little similar because he begins with utsāha-mayī, hopped up with enthusiasm, which seems to be a little bit of it indicative of pride.
And then the final stage of anartha-nivṛtti is to raṅga-raṅgiṇī, which is we're we're enjoying the small accomplishments. The results of the small accomplishments you made in bhakti.
Yeah but uh he doesn't h he describes this as as uh sudden uh you know the manifestation of uh our instability towards bhakti when we are not we we really didn't reach the stage of Nishta, we're still not very stable, so that's how he describes.
This description is different in the sense that this is the description of how offense takes roots in us and how it restores. Similarities is definitely there because you know this so but it
was it you or somebody you know recently during the Russia festival uh in our conversation somebody said about s some emoji in our movement that he made the same sort of evolution as uh Caitanya Mahāprabhu but vice versa.
Huh? Mirajana. Anyway, whatever it is.
So what we can see sometimes the reverse movement takes place in our devotional career when uh we achieve certain stage and then the reverse movement starts. It's retrograde movement in Bhakti. The other thing is Cotila.
Is that the same derived and the same meaning of proteinness? Yeah, it's the same. And Cotila being Cotinium. Cotila being the mother and daughter of uh Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Kupila. She's yeah.
Basically means she's not straight, she's she's cruelty. Yeah, how do you My question is that very often when we're always climbing the long term of responsibilities, tremendous pressure comes on their life.
And especially pioneering, like when we were studying the history of the school, we can see those the ones who took the pioneering responsibility over Africa or many places like that.
So they uh was no responsibility came which they could not handle. And also in this kind of extreme situation sometimes conflict among the leaders take place.
So and uh in certain conflict situations when you um taking responsibility for the project for the area sometimes to protect the project for the book is there.
Sometimes leader has to take strong stand because if you're not standing for something, it's a fall down for nothing.
And my experience shows that sometimes two leaders and two opinions come together that uh on the basis of management or teaching style takes some misunderstanding and can it can become very intense.
And because of that frustration we may come we were not here we have that discussion also with those sharing was invisible in their committee or their regional meetings.
So how to deal with the situation when difference in opinions uh take place and you have to become humble and flexible without committing offenses anyway. Different things.
One you have to really, you know, try to prove the point of view which is based on your experience and your devotion and your sincerity to help our devotees. And I don't think there is anything wrong in this sort of discussions, even though sometimes they may become hot, provided that you maintain internal respect to this devotee and see his devotion and don't question his devotion.
The most offensive thing or the most offensive attitude which you can take against other devotees is to question his devotion because devotion is something which is very sort of dear to our heart.
It's a you know great part of our identity, especially us as leaders, this is our identity. And if somebody you know questions your devotion, that hurts and that's offensive.
So somebody else may have different opinion and you may argue with him to your heart's content, but don't question his sincerity and devotion in this sort of discussions. Thank you.
What I was thinking to not do, in certain areas there is um time places for the stance is pretty negative place because you can copy and paste one style and buy it in some in other places or your country.
And uh what we have seen, I was also learning to countries all over the world. I have seen that in certain areas working very successfully.
And all of a sudden from another sincere preacher counts and trying to apply his style and things go completely. In fact, we lose both.
So sometimes one regional secretary told me I had to freeze everything completely and just to grow completely, just to keep on making them something.
So that kind of difference that both of them is sincere devotees and the health experience about how to avoid this kind of uh offenses You know, offenses you can avoid, but problems you cannot avoid. That's the point.
Offenses you can avoid in this world if you're conscious enough and uh if you are you know if you know what it is but problems you will not be able to avoid it the differences of opinion, mistakes.
It's it's it's you know just just use it as a purification too. Ultimately it's for our purification. Problems will be there. Don't be offensive. Don't use problem as an excuse to commit offenses. That's it.
Pride versus healthy self-esteem
Yes, right, isn't it? Many times we hear a crime is is a bad thing and we understand that pride is brilliant and it destroys everything. How to draw the line between pride and healthy self-worth?
It's a very common question. I answered this question at least hundred times. Um and And this misunderstanding
must be quite prominent because even Sanātana Gosvāmī in his Bṛhad-bhāgāmṛta while defining humility says that humility is the feeling of a person who is accomplished in many ways but still doesn't feel proud about himself.
So self-esteem, basically, you know that you have some good qualities and you don't have to pretend that you don't have anything, you don't have to you know basically uh try to imitate anyone or whatever I'm so false, so fallen. No.
Humility and the real humility may manifest only in a person who has some good qualities and self-esteem.
But at the same time he doesn't become obsessed or proud about it, doesn't want to you know ascribe to himself everything which is being done in the world and you know that's that's totally different.
It's uh it may seem similar but it's uh it's different.
You know you know that you're doing it, you're doing some service and you're using it as a servant in the service, but at the same time uh you are not proud it's uh that's that's what it is and healthy self self-esteem should be there you know because without self-esteem you will not be able to do anything.
You have to do something. And you you're doing this, but you're not at the same time you're not making a big deal out of it. I'm just a servant of my spiritual master to God. Unless you want to comment on this point.
Yeah please.
But it's according to our basic philosophy that we ourselves are only desiring and we desire by the mercy of our spiritual master and his disciplic succession probably, then Kṛṣṇa is actually manifesting through his hopefully his internal energy our activity, what we think is our activities, but they're actually the activities being carried out by the divine nature.
So where is there any question of being proud if we're actually not doers? It's still we managed somehow. Yes. By the mercy of Kṛṣṇa's other energy. So even this is all of mercy.
On the other hand, we're proud of our spiritual master and Krishna who's actually doing all these things and watching them deliver ourselves and other that's and we're confident we become confident that that's what they're doing and that's the really the source of confidence and and uh appreciation.
Categorization of devotional offenses
I've got two questions. Um one of them is just very simple. About the limit force terminology for symbol and determinant? Sarvatha.
And the determination I don't remember I think I think it's uh I'll have to check I'll I'll ask you again often. And then the other question I had, um well,
the larger question is this Vaishnava aparādha has four types of aparādha. Bhakty-utpan-nāśā, sukṛtā-parādha, duṣkṛtā-parādha, and aparādha with Vaiṣṇava. Maybe there's maybe there's more. Dhāma and nāma in there as well.
There's a few different— Oh wait, I'm talking about aparādha. I'm sorry. Four types of Vaishnava aparādha. Dhāma, Vaiṣṇava, nāma, and uh No, that's just not just how we're not around. Same. Same things.
So we've got we've got both. So we've got four types from Vaiṣṇava aparādha. We've got four types from nāma-aparādha, although one of them itself is called aparādha and the other ones have different names.
So the triad of sevā, kṛṣṇa, and sevā-aparādha seem to be somehow related to the nāmābhāsa. That's the glossa of aparādha. So the aparādha is some type of an aparādha type of an aparādha, yes.
Okay, so then we have actually when aparādha is a type of an aparādha, we have four operators, then we've got the ten nāma-aparādhas, we've got the six kinds of Vaiṣṇava aparādhas.
I'm wondering, and that's not tripping me out, but I'm what I'm wondering is does Jiva Gosvāmī have a model or a structure for defining aparādha? Not as I know. Not as I know.
He defines aparādha uh by the effects of aparādha.
He says that you have to be very watchful and alert and really see what's going on within your heart and how your relationship as as in the beginning I said that you know aparādha manifest in the way we view the devotees, devotion, and Bhagavān. And the more offensive we are, the more materialistic it appears to us, so to speak.
So he basically defines aparādha in this sense, he doesn't classify them, and of course he speaks about 10 aparādhas, 10 nāma-aparādhas, and explains them. But uh basically well yeah, one thing
he says he classifies and the uh uh ten 10 nāma-aparādhas into two categories. He says that there are categories of the most severe Nama parat, and there are secondary Namaaparats. So the most severe Nama parats are four.
Two of them we know pretty well because it's there in the verses of Padma Purāṇa. One is the uh uh uh sadhunda, the first offense, another one is the seventh offense.
To uh how you say to commit sins on the strengths of the purifying power of the Holy name. But Śrīla Jīva Gosvāmī adds two more aparādhas to this severe category.
He says, arthavāda, when you consider the glory of the Holy Name as an exaggeration and uh uh uh uh or uh no even uh even to uh you know b basically
uh he says that if you if you do this if you do this kind of apparatus uh consider the glory of the holy name as imaginary or exaggeration or consider the devotional service as one of the auspicious ceremonies that basically you're not performing the devotional
service as such, you're performing karma-miśrā bhakti or this, you know, chāyā oh sorry, prateka-ābhāsa. So he considers this as quite severe aparādhas. And especially, he gives a special treatment to two out of the ten.
He says that two are most severe. One is the offense against the devotees, another one is this uh consider uh glory of the holy name with imagination. So very specifically he says this too is the most severe.
Maraj, so given that the ten offenses we know is the offensive installment, in many ways are offensive for some of the chance because they include all sorts of aparādhas that aren't specific to the Holy Name, such as sādhuk nindā, and the offenses to śāstra as well. in the Nisaporu, and the fentanys for Shastra as well.
We could take it that Jīva Gosvāmī's working model is the ten offenses for what constitutes aparādha. Yeah. Okay.
And then this uh this chāyā-prateka-ābhāsa, are those subcategories under kauṭilya or are they their own categories? Uh yeah you can say you can say you can say that this is under kauṭilya. Thank you.
Impact of offenses on consciousness
Yes, yes. This morning you spoke about the uh the sin touched the mind of the body and then apart touches the soul. So that means that is that mean that it touches the consciousness or the consciousness yes.
So can you please elaborate on the this consciousness of it touch See
the mind and the body is just uh it's a mechanism, right? It it only becomes conscious because of the connection with the soul. The example which is given is that sometimes the clouds they cover our moon this light clouds and they become effulgent, the clouds themselves.
The clouds themselves don't have effulgents, but because of the connection with the moon, they emanate effulgents and we see them being effulgent.
In the same way mind seems to be conscious because of the closeness with the soul and because of the energy of the soul, the consciousness of the soul which saturates the mind and makes it appear as if it's conscious.
But ultimately it's sort of unconscious mechanism as much as you know there is mind in this computer.
Right, it does so many things, it you know, and can do so many things, but uh the whole thing only makes sense if you have human being operating this computer.
So in the same way, you know, the soul is operating the computer of the mind. And sometimes we can see people are so absorbed in what is going on in the computer then they forget themselves.
Nowadays some people, they even die in front of the computer because they forget about eating and sleeping, you know, because they're so absorbed into it.
In the same way the soul becomes very absorbed in what is going on in the mind and forgets his own identity, his own separate identity, because it's so interesting what's going on? So many gates are there.
So then an aparadha happens. I I really want to know is that when aparadha happens, how does it affect the consciousness? Because we are doing aparadha with our mind and body.
And how does the consciousness? See um how it affects the consciousness. Um well I I I will consider myself lucky I if I will be able to answer this question, but that's how I understand.
The only thing which is there in our consciousness is that attitude of mukhyata that bahirmukha, we are bahirmukha, we turned away from the Lord.
And when we commit aparadhas first of all we commit aparadhas uh even though we may commit aparadhas by our mind and body, but we uh we commit aparadhas because of certain attitude, conscious attitude which is being reflected on the mind and the soul, on the mind and the body, so to speak.
And in turn, when we continue this
chain of committing aparadhas, we're strengthening this offensive attitude of the soul, which turned away from the from the Lord. So much so that you know at one point the you know the soul or through the mind says there's no God it's all you know it's all imagination this and that. Even though it's obvious that there should be some original power and so on so forth.
So basically we are committing aparadhas by the mind or even body, or by our tongue, or whatever. But at the root of it there is the consciousness of the soul which is projected and manifest in the problems of the mind, the various problems of the mind.
And if we constantly continue these problems, we are strengthening this attitude and it more or less strengthens the determination of the soul not to see the Lord, not to turn towards the Lord.
As much as the practice of devotion, which may consider also to be the practice of the body and the mind ultimately affects the soul. So, how it affects the soul? Through the same thing.
It just affects the soul by gradually turning the consciousness towards the Lord and helping us to remember the Lord. Something like this.
Severity of specific offenses
Yes. I should have asked you a minute ago because I just realized I made a mistake. You mentioned that two of the ten offenses, four more severe, two get special treatment.
The two that get special treatment are the only ones that are given special treatment by the Mahā-mantra itself. It is indicated we can think deeply about why Gosvāmī chose these two specifically,
and I would like to invite and request you if you could enlighten me as to why these two get special handling. Well, I I can I can try to uh express my understanding of this.
The two most severe offenses is uh this sādhu nindā aparādha. And sādhu nindā is most severe offense
because of obvious reasons, because of the closeness of the sādhu towards the Lord, and you know, the sādhu basically is the one who is identical with the Lord in one sense, also is trying to become very close to the Lord and serve him, so obviously when we do this it's taken very personally by the Lord Himself because it's an aparādha against His own dear part.
You know, as much as the devotee makes the Lord as a part of his ego through this mamatta process, the Lord is mine.
So in the same way also you know the devotee who is very dear to the Lord becomes part of, so to speak, the ego of the Lord, if you can say this. So he remembers there is there is this beautiful story about
Mahārāja coming to Kṛṣṇa once in the morning and he, to his surprise, saw that Krishna is sitting there meditating very deeply. He is in complete samadhi.
And Maharajhthiri was trying to somehow or other you know wake him up or whatever, but it was not possible. After some time, after a long time, uh Krishna comes out from his samadhi and Maharaj asks him,
you know, how come you're meditating, on whom you're meditating, why your absorption of meditation is so deep. And Krishna gave a beautiful answer.
He says, now on the battlefield of Kurukshetra, Bhīṣma Dev is laying on his bed of arrows, and he's completely totally absorbed in the thoughts of mine and I absorbed in the thoughts of him and
that's why this is the explanation this story is the explanation of one of the thousand names of Vishnu, Vasuman, the one who is you know completely whose whose mind is in Vasu, in Bhīṣmadev.
So basically where's that story from uh this story is uh described by Baladevi Devus in his commentary to Vishnu Sahasranam by explaining this particular uh name. Sorry for that.
So that's why the first offense is naturally very severe because it's uh and we know ourselves that uh uh if somebody is offending somebody who is dear to us it's more painful than if somebody is offending us.
So that's clear. Another one is Artawad. Śrīla Jīva Gosvāmī goes into great extent explaining why this is such a severe offense.
It basically says that you don't believe in the power of the holy name, and you use the holy name some means, as some secondary means to your ends which you want to achieve.
And he says that Arthawad uh is uh is you know it's it's a non di it's a very non-devotional attitude as much as the fending of the Vaishnava is manifestation of your non-devotion, so to speak, of your uh non-devotional attitude, as much as uh this Athawad is just revealing that you're not truly a devotion, you're using the devotion as a means for some other ends. So that's why it's so severe.
It is he shows it in some other section of Bhakti Sandharva proving that this is this is very non-devotional. I don't remember the subtle points of this, but more or less that's what he says about it.
That's why he says he gives a very beautiful explanation of this story of Maharajan Riga. Because it is said that if somebody was calling the name of the Lord, he will never go to hell.
And about Maharajan Riga, it is said that he was a very great devotee of the Lord, he was very devotional, and he was, you know, he wanted to see the Lord, up to the point.
It is said clearly there in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam that he wanted to see the Lord. But he became lizard. How come he became lizard? Because lizard is a hellish uh hellish destination
so to speak after that and he says because of this specific offense he didn't have the full faith in the devotional practice and he saw that he needs to fortify the devotional practice by distributing the charities.
And that's why he became the wizard. And this is the specific offense which he committed and the severeness of this offense
manifested and that it basically blocked the power of the Holy Name to save you from hellish manifestation. Thank you, Marjorie.
Protection through devotee association
Yes, my n harass somebody can give the microphone to Diana Mar as you mentioned the past time of ballots how we fell down to the fence in the previous line.
So when I read the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, it gives another reason that uh it was because he he lost the association of devotees. So how would these things correlate? How would these things work together?
Um well uh I just described what Srila Jiva Gaswami says and he illustr he gives this as an ill illustration to the point uh which he makes how or why all of a sudden somebody becomes so absorbed in the things which are detrimental and he knows they are detrimental.
So he specifically analyzes the effects of the offenses, therefore, this is the consideration.
Obviously, that's another consideration because the the association of the devotees is the protective shield against the aparādhas. If you remain in the association of devotees you are in a much better
position not to commit aparādhas or not to fall victim of the previously committed aparādhas because you are in a safe association and you're inspired and you feel the taste. That's basically what how I can explain this.
So if we complain and absorb in pure devotion or try to pure absorb ourselves in pure devotional service, we're always protecting.
Yeah, and there is only one way for us to be absorbed in pure devotional service is through the association with the higher grades of devotees, because otherwise how we can be absorbed in pure devotional service we will uh do something which is not so pure but and uh you know consider ourselves pure.
But at the same time, you know if we are constantly in association then the chances are there and the desire to perform the pure devotional source will remain intact in our heart, which is the most important I guess that's it.
We can finish now. We can finish before time. So thank you very much.