Srimad-Bhagavatam 4.25.49
Бхакти Вигьяна Госвами · Непал · 2022
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Reading Srimad-Bhagavatam fourth canto verse
Omna Mo Bhagavateva Sud Devaya, Omna Mo Bhagavateva Sud Devaya, Om Nam Bhagavateva Sud Devaya, Narayan Namaskritiana Ram Cheva Narotam Devim Saraswatiamu Dirayat, Nashta praya.
So we will readow the forty nine verse forty nine verse forty ninth verse of the twenty fifth chapter of Bhagavat of Simad Bhagavatam Force Kanto.
Okay, so the verse is Mukyanama Purastat Dvaha, Tayapana Bahudano, Vishyo Yati Purarat, Rasagya Vipanan Vitaha Mukiada Chief Nama Colt
Purastat on the eastern side dvahagit Taya Baidat Apana Apana of the name Apana Bahudano on the name Bahudana Vishayau to places Yati used to go puravat purarat the king of the city Puranjana, Rasagya of the name Rasagya, Vipana of the name Vipana Anvita along with translation and purport
by his Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda. So the fifth gate situated on the eastern side was named Mukya or the chief.
Through this gate, accompanied by his friends named Rasaya and Vipana, he used to visit two places named Bahudana and Aapana. The mouse is here described as the chief gate or the most important gate.
The mouse is a very important entrance because one has two functions to conduct with the mouse. One function is eating, and the other is speaking.
Our eating is done with the friend rasadgya, the tongue, which can taste so many different types of foods. The tongue is also used for speaking, and it can speak of either material or sense enjoyment or Vedic knowledge.
And of course, here material sense enjoyment is stressed, therefore the word rasaghya is used.
Namaam Vishnupadai Krishna Prashtaya Bhutale, Srimate Bhaktividanta Swami Tinamini, Namaste, Sraswati Devi, Gouravani Prachari, Nirvi Shesha, Sunyavadi, Paschatyades are ne Sri Krishna Chaitanya Prabhunitananda Sjadvaita Gadat Hara Srivasta Gaura Bhakta Vrinda, Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hari Hare Hari Rama Hari Rama Rama Rama Hari Hari.
Yanddah praviši mama vachimamampra sudtam sanj vaja ta kila shakti darakhswadamna, anjamhastacharana sravanatva gadim, pranandama bhagavate Puruchayatum Jan Mandya Syayaton Vayata Taratascharty Shabhi, Swaratini, Brahmahridaya, Adikawaya Muhyanti Yat Suraya, Jow Variim Ridam Yatavi Majuya
Trat Tri Sharga Mrisha, Dham nas Vina Sadhani Rastu kuhakam Satyam paramedi mahi, satyam paramdi mahi. Swasya stu vi shwassa kalah pra sida tam de So
thank you very much for inviting me for this Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam morning class.
Human privilege of objective self-observation
Of course, it's evening here where I am now. I will try to speak a few words on this topic of the story of King Puranjana. This is, of course, we know is an allegorical story and
the purpose of this story is to have an objective look at what is going on with us while we are enjoying or trying to enjoy material life in this body. The developed intelligence of a human being gives us this privilege.
We, and only we, uh, out of all the eight million four hundred eight million species of life are capable of having an objective look.
Everyone else's consciousness is totally subjective, in other words, one can only look at oneself from within so to speak. We cannot really detach ourselves in other species of life,
the dog cannot philosophically think about what is going on while she or he is enjoying some grass, chewing some grass.
The dog cannot really objectively estimate what is going on while he is or she is sleeping to be politically correct. Whatever it is.
So this is the greatest privilege, but we rarely use this privilege. We actually don't use this privilege often enough. What happened? Okay. We can hear you fine. Okay.
Okay, so let me continue a little bit with this uh topic. So what I was saying is that uh we don't really use this privilege often enough. to disengage ourselves from the material experience.
By the eyes we always see, by the tongue we always taste, by the ears we always hear. And very rarely we try to look at this process from the objective side.
Like, you know, it's not I who is doing this, but this is my ear which is doing this. This is my tongue which is tasting the taste. This is, you know, this is my skin which is experiencing the touch.
So and the whole story of Puranjana is to explain how we should look at this, that actually this is something which is different from me.
I am this King Puranjana, I am sitting in this body with nine gates, I'm experiencing different things. You know, I'm going through one gate, through another gate. All these nine gates I'm using frequently.
I want to go to this place with this gate to another place with this gate, experiencing this. But I am different from this. I am not actually this thing.
Actually, if we study this chapter very carefully, this and other four chapters about King Puranjana very carefully, we will experience something very amazing.
We will experience that I'm not this body and it will not become just a lofty slogan from Bhagavad-gītā, which we borrowed from Śrīla Prabhupāda, it will become our own experience.
That's the power of the words of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, the words of Nārada Muni.
Cultivating Sakshi Bhava as a witness
It will give us the constant position of a witness. It's actually what we're supposed to develop while practicing Krishna consciousness. Sakshi Bhava.
Sakshi means witness, and witness basically means coming back to reality. I am not really experiencing what is going on. Something which is going on in my body, I am just a witness of it.
So there is uh there is a difference. Uh if I am uh totally identifying with the body and the processes which are going on in the mind, with all these waves in the minds, with all these whirlpools and storms which are storms which are going on in my mind.
And I'm trying to enjoy or suffer with this, I will not really break the chain of karmic reactions because every experience done in such consciousness will leave an expression, an impression in my mind, and this impression will force me, will push me to experience it again and again and again.
Whereas, if I take this objective position and look at it from the objective point of view, I will not really remain in this vicious circle of birth and death.
Because even the impression, some saṁskāra which is left from this experience will be much less if if at all. Actually, if we really be established in this position of Sakshi of witness,
then there will be no impressions practically. Because the impressions are left by all these experiences which we have only when we identify with this experience and give them emotional emotional, how to say, rating.
If we're eating, and at the same time we are, you know, we, as the jīva soul, saying, Oh this is great, this is such a good pizza, it's amazing pizza. I've never eaten such a good pizza.
This pizza will remain, it will be stuck in your brain forever. You know, and you will always try to repeat the same experience.
And the more the higher your emotional rating of uh this or that experience will be, no matter uh what kind of emotional rating it is. Uh it may be a negative emotional rating or it may be positive emotional rating.
In fact, uh negative emotional rating is usually deeper, leaves deeper impressions in our consciousness. But the problem with all the saṁskāras is that the saṁskāras accumulating, laying over one another create vasana.
Vasana basically means the trait of our character, the inclination which we have, different tastes which we have. And this vasanas is the energy which propels our next existence.
We are accumulating all this vāsanās, uh some skāras are uh uh you know uh being accumulated one after another. You know, it creates vāsanā, and vāsanā creates the new personality.
All this vāsanās they contain very strong emotional energy, and this emotional energy will inevitably turn into the desire at the end of my life, I want to experience this, or I want to achieve this, or I want to become that.
This is exactly what Krishna says in Bhagavad-gītā, where he explains Yam Yam Vapismaran Bavam tia Jatan Te Kawalevaram, tatatevaiti kauntea sadatat bhavo bhavitaha.
Whatever the word bhavitaha in Sanskrit literally means soaked in. We are soaking our consciousness, our mind again and again and again in different experiences.
And according to the souls in which we are soaking our consciousness, we will determine determine our next life and next existence.
Overcoming karmic cycles with Krishna consciousness
So that's why this objective consciousness is so important to stop the vicious circle of karma. And there is no other way to stop the vicious circle of karma.
You can do it directly, try to do it directly, which is a little difficult. You know, to constantly be in this, try to be in this consciousness, or you can do it by the means of Krishna consciousness. It means that you are not really absorbed or
concentrated in your own experience, but rather you're trying to think about Krishna or about your service and you're not really too much concentrated uh on the experiences which is going on in your mind.
You basically take it lightly. You don't take very seriously your happiness and distress. And because you don't take it very seriously, it doesn't leave lasting experience.
And because you take happiness and distress of Krishna or your spiritual master, of Śrīla Prabhupāda, very seriously, then you are simultaneously
creating some spiritual saṁskāras which also have very powerful energy and ultimately will bring about your liberation or not liberation, they will ultimately form your svarūpa.
And there's no other way of uh doing this. You know, we have to get rid of all this uh upādhis or external things which are uh covering over our consciousness at present time.
Anyway, that's the general purpose of this story. To look at our experiences from a distance, not from within, but from without.
And immediately as soon as we take this position of witness of Sakshi, we become less involved in it. We become more detached. And we will say, so so what? This is a good pizza, so what?
This is this is a really bad uh you know some bad experience, some suffering.
But uh you will take it less seriously and you will be much more emotionally protected and more emotionally balanced if you practice it every now and then. Actually, the idea is that you should practice it all the time.
You should try to practice it in the beginning initially a little bit, but then if you really do it, you will get the taste of it.
If you're somewhat detached and you're more uh concentrated on much more important things in your life, then you're not really disturbed by all these events which are there.
And this is a great, I mean, this is a great achievement.
You know, if you are laying in a hospital in a bed, and your body is a mess, and you're capable of looking at this objectively and remain very peaceful in this time. This is already quite a significant achievement.
Understanding humility as Sakshi Bhava
But why do I say that this is what we're supposed to do all the time? Because this is what Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu himself says in Śikṣāṣṭakam.
Actually, this position of witness, this sākṣī-bhāva, is described in the third verse of Śikṣāṣṭakam, the famous verse, most popular verse among the devotees,
Tṛṇād api su-nīcena, taror api sahiṣṇunā, amānī mānadena, kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ. This is being explained by Sanātana Gosvāmī in Bṛhad-bhāgavatāmṛta,
This is being explained by Sanatana Gaswami in Brihat Bhagavatamritava, he says that humility means Sakshi Bhava. Humility and Sakshi Bhava is not different. And pride contrary to something contrary to humility.
And this internal experience of oneself being a body is also synonymous.
You know, to remain humble, to be able to respect others and not to expect respect to oneself, one has to take this position of sākṣī. I'm not this body. I don't care what is going on.
I don't care what other people think about me. I don't care what other people really talk about me, and only then I will be able to become humble.
Whereas if I experience and take very seriously what is going on with me in my life. This is called pride. I am very proud of my achievement.
I am this, I am that, I am PhD, I am ABC, GBC, whatever it is, you know, whatever whatever abbreviation you can put in front of your body is good. The more it is, the better.
People are so mad, they are so happy of collecting all the upādhis. You know. Some anyway, maybe I shouldn't give this example, but uh
and actually the more the more old they become the more attached they they become to all these uh prizes and all these diplomas which they have.
You know, you come to a some important man's office and he has the whole wall with all these different diplomas and you know this funny stuff, you know, how you call this vessels and trophies. Yeah, trophies. You know.
And you look at this and you you really know, you know, this man has a lot of problems because he's not only identifying with this body, which is problematic enough, but he's identifying with all these achievements which is there.
And he's collecting them more and more and more because this is how people you know create their own importance. You know, the more this stuff they have, the more important they are, even though it's it's completely insignificant, you know, this piece of paper.
You know, when uh Soviet Union was there, there was this last uh ruler of the Soviet Union, Brezhnev.
So he had so many, you know, orders and medals and you know it it wouldn't even fit in his in his chest, you know, and practically every week he would put some more stuff on his chest.
Because you know that's unfortunately the nature of an old age, we become afraid of becoming nothing. And therefore, we try to collect this useless upādhis. And bhakti means sarvopādhi-vinirmuktatparatvena nirmalam.
Actually, the literal translation of the word to padhi in Sanskrit is diploma. So you know it's PhD upādhi, MA upādhi, or BA, whatever upādhis there. This is all upādhis.
Temple President upādhi, GBC upādhi or sannyāsī upādhi, that's also upādhi. So this is this is what is going on and this bhava, Sakshi Bhava, which I mentioned is sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam. I am not this.
I'm not proud of all these achievements. And therefore, actually the, real result of reading and studying this story again and again and again.
If you read it many, many times in a row, I once recommended to my audience to listen this to to read this story a hundred times uh in a row. And I promise to them that if they do this they will definitely realize that they're not this body.
And many of them did it. I didn't do it myself, I have to admit. But some of them did share with me their experiences that it's really the detachment is coming out because you just see what is going on.
Misuse of tongue in sense gratification
You are this King Purañjana, and this is purī, and there is this mukhya dvāra, mukhya gate, which is your mouth. And you're going with two friends.
into two cities accompanied with the two friends into two cities from this mouth: your eating and your speaking. And therefore the tongue which has here two names: one is rasajña, and another one is jihvā.
Jihvā means speech and rasajña means taste and basically here what is being described here specifically is being described the misuse of the body as the instrument for sense gratification.
We can use this body very productively by Hṛṣīkeśa sevānam, by serving our senses to the master of the senses, by serving to the Lord by our senses.
But usually people they misuse the facilities which are there in the human body and or overuse this.
You know, the sense enjoyment is the byproduct of the very uh very nice activity which we can do with the body to prolong or to survive the sense enjoyment of any interaction with the senses which we have of senses with the sense objects, you know,
they can be productive if they use properly. Use properly means we are doing this for survival of the body. You know, if we eat think to live, then the enjoyment will come.
In the act of eating, the enjoyment is invested with the act of eating, and we will have some healthy enjoyment.
But if we are eating to enjoy this and this healthy enjoyment will give us some enthusiasm in the mind, and the act of eating will bring to us some energy and very healthy sorta life.
But if we make byproduct as the main goal of this activity. The enjoyment is a by-product. But if we switch and instead of eating to live, we start living to eat then the same act will become suicidal more or less.
It will become the cause of a lot of troubles and problems and basically, destroy our life. Same with the sex. Sex is good. Dharma Viruda Kamasmi.
I am the sex according to Dharma Viruda, which is not against the principles of Dharma.
But if the byproduct of sex enjoyment becomes the main purpose of being engaged in this process, then it will become very destructive, destructive to the body and destructive to the mind. It will become totally destructive.
So, and basically, what is described here is described the misuse of the body.
The use of the body, the use of the mouth and the facilities or whatever is there in the mouth, the rasajña and the speaking faculty which is there in the mouth, the use for sense gratification, useless thing, useless thing.
We all know what it means to use the tongue for sense gratification.
You know, she said this and he did this and they are so bad, ha ha, blah blah blah. You know, all this gossip which is there. This is uh you know it's uh uh in in Hindi,
no, even in Sanskrit there is a saying, ninda-rasa piba, just uh drink this very delicious drink of ninda, of offenses, of gossip. Ninda rasa piba. Sadapiba. Always drink, always drink.
You know, we enjoy by speaking bad things about other people, and we enjoy by eating all kinds of garbage. But if we really look at this in the useless process, you know, how many pizzas did we eat in in our life?
How many how many other stuff did we eat? What is the result? Where are they? You know, of course they're they they are in the mind. They're still there in a form of desire.
But you know, it it really inconsequential, it really doesn't matter. It it's not so important, it's not as important as we think while looking at this from inside. If we objectively look at this process, we will
say, so what? You know, this is not import. This is nothing which bring real satisfaction. The real satisfaction can only be some experiencing of love by while we are really connecting heart by heart with other people.
So that's basically the purpose of this whole story, and this is how we should try to read it.
Really experience all this uh so-called enjoyment uh uh in the real world, you know, experience in a sense that, yes, this is this, my senses, this not me my senses are interacting with the objects of the senses.
And I need to do it, I have to do it to survive, but it's not as important as I may think.
Experiencing taste in chanting holy names
So that's the purpose, and ultimately, as I said, that will bring about the humility. And without humility, we cannot really achieve the taste or experience real taste of the holy name.
You know, that's why that's how it is connected. This is how it is. interconnected. The whole Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is about the importance of chanting of the holy name.
But you will never be able to experience the taste of the Holy Name or the real taste. The shadow of the taste you will be able to experience. The shadow of the taste you can experience from the very beginning.
But the shadow is very unstable. You get little taste, and then you think, oh, you know, I'm being sentimental. It just appears to me. It's just some mirage or something like this.
It's some, some mental, mental game which is going on. No, it's not a mental game. You know, sometimes I'm sure every one of us has this experience. You start crying during kirtan or you, you know, recently
somebody sent to me an interesting video, it's a few minutes video about some contest uh in South India and the girls, little girls, some you know, seven-year-old girls, one is even less seven, eight-year-old girls, one was I think five-year-old.
They they were singing one song about Krishna, beautiful song, and in the uh refrain of the song they they started in a very high pitch sing Krishna, Krishna, Krishna, Krishna, Krishna.
So one girl comes and she starts singing. And she comes to this point and she takes this really high note and everyone is applauding. And she tries to continue with the song, but she cannot because she starts crying.
She stops it and you know, and uh everyone is amazed. And then the next girl comes and sings the same song, and same thing happens to her.
And then one Muslim girl comes, and then she starts saying, Krishna, Krishna, Krishna. And again the tears come from her eyes automatically. You know, by the power of the name.
The name, the power, this power, this is called Taraka Shakti, is invested in the holy name. And you know, you can get if you really in a pure heart, chant the holy name, you will experience some shadow taste.
But as Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, you can only experience the real taste, start experiencing the real taste.
After reaching this stage of Sakshibala, of this position of being the witness, not the experiencer, not the bhoktā, but Sakshi. So that's extremely important. And that's why it is there.
This story is there in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Because again, as I said, the essence of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is to glorify the name. If we analyze the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam as a whole, we will see in the first chapter of the first canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Āpannaḥ saṁsṛtiṁ ghorām, the glorification of the name is there by the sages of Naemisharanya.
The very last verse of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is again about glorifying saṅkīrtanam. That by saṅkīrtana your whole heart will become very pure. And in the meantime, so many glorifications of the holy name is there.
How it is śvapaca-tāgarīyam in the third canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, in the sixth canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, the whole Ajāmila story. So the whole essence of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is to instill within our heart the faith and the power of the Holy Name.
And of course, you know, twelfth canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, there is this story about Kali Yuga and how Kali Yuga, kāler doṣa-nidhe rājan asti hy eko mahān guṇaḥ kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya, from the kīrtana of the holy name, mukta-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajāt, you will get complete freedom from all the association with material atmosphere.
But you can only experience this, as Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, if you develop humility. And you can only develop humility if you disidentify yourself from the body.
Disidentify yourself from the pride which is there, uh, which is attached to your body, which is connected with your body, which is, uh, you know, uh, which is basically inseparable from your body.
Uh so you can never become really humble if you are not in this position of not really experiencing, of not being proud of your enjoyment of your suffering.
Because people equally suffer, equally enjoy the suffering and enjoyment. You know the experience of being a victim is very high-class enjoyment. I'm such a victim. I'm so nice, you know, and everyone is exploiting me.
That's so bad, and I'm so good.
Controlling tongue by speaking about Krishna
You know, so, uh, anyway, you, you all know this. I'm just reminding you about this and, uh, uh, trying to explain in the context of this verse, uh, what is, uh, what is the essence of this particular chapter.
And of course, you know, because, uh, tongue has these two functions, uh, it's very difficult to control. Sharira, Bidja Jal, Jonindriya tahika Tharumadi among all the senses jihvā the tongue is Lobhamu Sudurmati.
It's very voracious. It's very lobhā-mā-s. It's very greedy. To taste and to speak, because two functions are in one little piece of flesh. And accordingly, how we use this tongue, whether we use it to
asat varta veja utrija Sarvasvas Sarva Haranihas Raguna Das Gaswami says, you know, the first thing which we should do, asatvarta vešya, to Utsrija Sarvasva Haranik. We should give up this Asat Varta veshi. We should give up this prostitute of Asat varta of the mundane news, mundane gossip.
And therefore, also Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī starts Upadeśāmṛta. What is the first upadeśa in Upadeśāmṛta? What is the first one? It is uh how is it?
Uh, vāco vegam. Vācā-vegam. Vācā-vegam, manasaḥ krodha-vegam. So this is the first upadeśa, the most important upadeśa. If you want to become less proud, control your tongue. By looking at what you are doing objectively.
Not experiencing the taste of what you are doing with your tongue, but trying to look from a little from outside.
So, this is the first upadeśa which we should understand, and it happened to be also the Upadesh of this particular verse which we are reading, that two functions are there with the tongue.
Tongue should be controlled first and uh the only way to control tongue is to speak about Krishna.
So I thank you very much for letting me to control my tongue by speaking about these topics of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Otherwise, I would probably talk some nonsense or engage some you know my tongue in some nonsensical way.
So that's more or less this, and having
said by quoting Manaḥ-śikṣā of Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī: asad-vārtā-veśyā utsṛjya sarvasva-haraṇī, give Vartavesya Utrijasarvasvaharani, give up this prostitute of asad-vārtā of the mundane news because it's sarvasva-haraṇī, because it robs you still from you still away from you everything all the all the wealth which you could accumulate.
You know, the problem with this tongue is that it's a robber, it's a thief. It robs us from spiritual experience. You know, you can have very simple experiment.
You experience something really spiritual, you experience some elevated state of consciousness. You know, you just tell somebody about this. It will be gone. Because very proudly you will explain this to other people.
Devotee experiences amidst war in Ukraine
And that's exactly what Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī says when he says sarvasva-haraṇī, this tongue asad-vārtā-veśyā, our absorption into this asad-vārtā or grāmya-kathā, mundane topics, into this Asatvarta or Grammyakatha, mundane topics, actually, it deprives us from the spiritual experience, a genuine spiritual experience. But because Sarvatma Prabhu asked me to speak about Ukraine even though it is an asat varta, it's a mundane sort of experience.
We still should speak about this, but of course, keeping in mind everything which has been said. And what does it mean? It means that we're using this topic to glorify the devotional service.
And actually, this topic is very much worthy uh if we use it uh for this purpose. You know I'm very unfortunately oh you know, one may differently rate this experience.
In one sense it's very unfortunate to witness uh you know, so many sufferings which people undergoing. From another point of view, it's actually very satisfying to the heart.
When you see how devotees, different devotees cope with this situation and how they remain stronger in in their Krishna consciousness.
So how they even you know just try to remain Krishna conscious in uh impossible situations, almost impossible situations. It's you you become very, you know, proud of Śrīla Prabhupāda and Śrīla Prabhupāda's achievement.
You know, yeah, there is uh I heard a rumor that one devotee left his body due to this um war. But it's not confirmed. Otherwise, most of the devotees, you know, the vast majority of the devotees are safe.
Although there were more than 120 devotees in Mariupol, Mariupol is the city which was the most affected by the war and they were for a long time they were hiding in the cellars of their go-downs, of their houses.
But they came together.
You know, this 120 devotees, they stayed in two or maybe three places to help each other, because there was there was no electricity, their cell phones didn't work, there there was no heat and you know this the war started in February it was a very cold time.
February is called in Ukrainian language Luti. Luti means fierce, cruel. It's the most uh it's the coldest months of the year.
And they were there in the cellars of their houses and they were, you know, they sometimes there was not even drinking water there and they had to, you know, by some very dangerous expeditions try to fetch some little water.
They were still, they were sharing the last things with each other, helping each other. Inevitably practically everyone says this that you though it's a very dramatic experience which they undergo through, but they also kind of I don't know enjoy is not a good word for this but they really enjoy some sort of unity and this emotional connectedness which came to them.
And you know, somebody told me that every day we have kirtana in our he's in the western part of Ukraine, so this part is not so much affected.
He said, but still we every day come for the kirtanas and we never had such kirtanas. And I want uh he said, I want that this war will go on so that we could have such kirtanas.
But he said, of course, you know, I don't want this war to go on in the real sense, but the experience which I have, I never had this experience, he said.
And you know, there's so many so many such stories are there you know and uh many people around 200 people are in one farm near uh Dnipro.
Two hundred people gather together and uh this farm is it may at best accommodate maybe 70 people. So the people are really crowded there.
They are but they all say that it's amazing the hospitality, the level of the level of friendliness and love and mutual help which they have is just tremendous and uh and they are really you know getting some spiritual experience and they say that's why uh and because of this the chanting of the holy name is also uh becoming much more profound experience than before.
And of course, you know that being reminded we are conveniently forgetting every day that the death is is coming, that it it soon will come to us, that we will have to leave everything and we have to really uh you know be serious about our practice because there is a lot to be done.
A lot of stuff is there, useless stuff in our mind, and we have to really download this stuff completely not upload new garbage into our mind. But we forget forget about this. On a daily basis we forget about this.
And we always say, you know, it's not soon, it's yeah, I know it's coming, but uh it's not going to happen with me too soon. Too soon means I don't know. But it may happen any day.
Mahārāja says this is most amazing thing that we always forget about that we also go gacchanti ha yamālayam from here iha to yamālayam to, the abode of Yama. Even though we see everyday people are doing this, they're going from here to the abode of Yama.
But yam-stām ācaranti, still, we want to stay in the same position where we are now. And this is Kimascharyyama Tahparam. What can be more amazing than this?
And what I want to say is that uh in in such an experience which uh devotees in ukraine have it's not possible. They really they really know that you know it can happen anytime. It may happen anytime.
It happens right right now with so many people. It may happen anytime. And therefore, you know, they chant as if this is the last chance to chant.
And therefore, because they are chanting in such consciousness, the chanting becomes very sincere and pure. So that's you know I don't know if you want to say something.
If you want me to say something more, I was not really prepared to speak about this. I thought of speaking a little bit about Bhagavatam, but I I I did both. So and I'm almost speaking for one hour, so I guess that's time.
I wanna I wanna I wanna thank you. This this has been a m magnificent experience.
Uh I I think I can speak in in the name of all the devotees who have been listening to you and I have I have a couple of questions for you and perhaps a a small
um historical correction. You you may you may correct me if you if you wish.
You said the l last uh um ruler of the Soviet Union was Brezhnev and in in my historical mind Oh yeah no yeah yeah Gorbachev but you know Brezhnev Brezhnev was ruling for a long time but, of course Gorbachev was the last.
Yeah. After Brezhnev as Android couple more. Andropov and Chernenko. And then Gorbachev.
Managing respect without adopting material upadhis
Yeah, there was but it's it's not important.
I I wanted to talk about U parties because in your position as a GBC, GBC Emeritus, sannyāsī and uh leader of of the of a very large yatra etc etc you you have an opportunity to collect more parties than anybody else the uh how do you how do you deal with this?
I experienced a very small fraction of this respect and adoration and distinction just by going to uh to Ukraine for example because you know I, was senior to pretty much everybody there.
And uh it was pretty unbearable. Uh it's something that may maybe when one is young as a young devotee you aspire to be recognized and famous and the but actually the the uh the experience is actually quite contrary that you feel overwhelmed
and undeserving. So having all these titles attached to your and positions, you must experience this daily if not weekly. How how do you deal with this? All all this respect adoration.
How can you become humble when everybody's telling you how great you are? I try not to take it seriously. You know, there is uh there should be some little sense of self-irony.
If you develop the habit to be a little ironic about this whole thing, then it may not touch you too much.
And ultimately, you know, if you if you know that it doesn't belong to you, it's just a question of more or less preaching to oneself. It doesn't belong to me. I have nothing to do with it.
And I know that I still have a long way to go. So if I always look back at on all my achievements, how will I reach the goal which I want to achieve?
So I that's why actually there is some motive in the fairy tales when somebody goes somewhere to a very you know arduous and dangerous journey is not supposed to look back. Isn't it?
The condition is always like this: if you look back, then then you will not reach your goal. So this is how it is this is actually the you know the important uh teachings uh for the spiritual practitioners.
We uh going in this journey and going through this road of spiritual development means that you shouldn't look back. I recently was, it's interesting, it was a very profound experience for me.
I went to Ahmedabad, the capital of Gujarat, and my Sanskrit teacher to whom I went there, he took me to Saranpur. Saranpur is a small village in the middle of nowhere in the middle of Gujarat countryside.
We had a training center of Swaminarayan sadhus, basically sannyasis of Swaminarayan group, is there. And I visited it before, this time it even had more you know impression upon me.
They have uh 1,200, 1200 sannyasis in their society. You know, and they're doing this temple in Berkeley, temple in Delhi, this huge Swami Narayan temples everywhere.
And this is because they all trained in this little university which is there. It's basically the whole village is around this university, temple, and the training center.
And sādhu, it was empty at that time, there was not so many students and sādhus, but one very tall sādhu, impressive sādhu, took us around, he spoke fluent English. And somebody told us that he's from America.
And then somebody told us that he is actually his father is multi-millionaire in America. And he's the only son. And he gave everything up and he's sleeping there on the floor of the Sārānpura.
Because the sādhus they are not supposed to have any possessions, not even sleeping bags, you know, and they're sleeping only on the floor.
And moreover, because he took sannyās officially, he's not even supposed to see his father. He told us that last time I saw my father was during my initiation ceremony. I have never seen him, I will never see him.
You know, he blessed me to take this pass and I will never see him again.
You know, and then in the end, you know, he was not speaking about himself, he was speaking about the how they teach the students, about the condition, the rules which they have. It was very interesting.
And with us was one devotee. Oh what happened? Kasturi is still here but nobody else is here. No, twenty people are here. Oh 20 people are here, okay. You are still here, okay. Okay.
So uh with us was one devotee uh who was our driver, he was rather young devotee, and uh he asked him at the end, uh, because this devotee who drove us in the car, uh, he was also studying in America.
And he was very intrigued and very impressed by this sādhu. And he said, Where are you from in America? Where did you live in America?
And then there was some pause, a little awkward pause, and somebody who was with us, he said he will never say this. Because he's not supposed to remember about this. He is not supposed to say where he is from even.
Because this is Upadhi. This is looking back at his life and being attached to his life and to his previous experience. And he didn't say this. He didn't say where he was from.
He didn't, you know, he said, I'm such and such, Dharmasetu Swami. And uh that's it. He's Dharmasetu Swami. No bodies, no past experiences, no attachment to this.
So it's basically you know try to try to look forward, not to look back. And I mean, you know, there is forward there is something nice.
But perhaps there are lessons to be learned from uh your own history, uh from your own past, and I think in the path of bhakti, if I'm not mistaken. Yeah.
Yeah, if if if you if you do it if you do it to you know to share your experience to help others that's fine.
But if you, you know, especially when people become little old, they become sentimental and all these past experiences become, you know, overly, overly, you know, overly important to them. They always dwell in the past.
This is not good. If you only do it in a very discreet manner, to share it with others to help them, that's fine.
But otherwise not to dwell too much into in all this sentimental past which always look nicer than it really was. questions for Goswami Maharaj please um raise a virtual
hand or a or a or a real hand and this is your chance otherwise we will let him go, uh, going once, going twice, well, it it was uh there is one from Ben Maduria. Go ahead Prabhu. Okay. Unmute yourself.
Thank you very much, uh and I just wanted to thank you personally and all of the introductions have been made in the beginning, I wanted also to say that for me personally and for my wife
and for many of our namahattas within priti, Bhakti Ganga Maharaj is a a very dear person, you know. It's not always you can meet somebody who has such an immense compassion, um sensitivity, and kindness.
And that kindness is over, as simple as it may sound, but it's something very rare.
And just by having that example in our life blessing us and we were able to push on in preaching. Um it in many ways it's also due to his kindness and compassion towards us.
So I'm very thankful today that we were able to hear but again the time our this topic is so nice. Thank you for reminding us to refine our hearts and really
uh focusing our consciousness to become this bhakta, the weakness that we are not this body, but rather the soul and body. So sorry we are just on the outside that I escape quickly. Uh but I had to say this because you
have Maharaja a few more upadhis for yourself. Doesn't it's inconsequential at this moment of time. Yes. Hi for the prison. I didn't listen to my event when I was really story on the outlet,
but I tried I tried my best and as I um as I understood we shouldn't stay here to what is going on so seriously about
everybody like and absorb it uh this dictation. At the same time uh what uh what can I do if I feel like if
Practical body care in spiritual life
my health is not good I can do less service for new education. That's that's fine. You know, that's fine. We have have to to we be practical. We have to take care of this body.
I do exercise every day for one hour or more sometimes. So we have to take care of the body, you know, it's it's not nice to be some disabled person in this body.
So there is nothing wrong with it unless it becomes an overwhelming uh you know goal of our life, uh that uh it becomes the uh you know uh how you say this, the you know, the goal in in itself. If it's just the goal to help us serving, that's fine. That's not a big deal.
We're using it properly. We have higher goal and to achieve this higher goal we may also take care of some other things and uh you know we have to take care of some other things.
But uh you know if this higher goal is being overshadowed by all these intermediary goals which are not the goals in themselves, then it's bad.
But if we really keep the chastity and loyalty uh to the higher goal, uh then it's not a problem, then we should we should do what what needs to be done. When you go ahead and mute yourself. Hare Krishna Maharaj.
Hare Krishna.
So my question when I was listening there's a few things occurred to me during your class and um I have like a couple of things, but I think it the first thing I wanted to ask is um as a very new bhakti in in um in the path of bhakti yoga I realized that um I am not there at the level that I can be transcendental to the most material nature, I can be equipped in happiness and distress and like you said earlier that only when we get to that, um, a certain state, I, I don't remember exactly the t, the term, but only then you can actually become the witness of whatever going on with the body.
So for a lot of us who are not there at a level, so how do we deal with um these happening distress when and I also see the tendency that sometimes we try to avoid our anarthas when they arise and just try to chant, um, or try to study scripture, but not really dealing with whatever anartha arises internally, and so how do we sort of navigate that and at the same time being equal, if that makes sense, Maharaja? Uh, you know, it's, it's a process, it takes time, but, uh, to speed it up a little bit, uh, what is good is the attitude that, you know, usually we attribute too much importance to what is going on with us.
So, uh, instead of doing this, it's better to downplay this sort of things and experiences. You know, we usually people try to kind of exaggerate it.
You know, they experience something, and then when they talk about this, they, they try to, you know, glorify it as if it was something, uh, even though it was not.
So in this way they make the experience uh you know more profound and deeper than it really was.
This is the usual tendency, because, uh, you know, we always want, you know, if happiness comes, then we try to make it more, and, you know, or at least, uh, make it look that it's more than it really is, uh, or it's subjectively, uh, in our consciousness it becomes more. A devotee,
You know, you're happy, so what? It will not last long, don't worry. Yeah, I'm, I'm sad, so what? You know, instead of kind of going deeper into this, try to be a little detached from this.
At the moment when you experience this, try to again take your consciousness out of this experience. And it's possible, you know. It may not be possible completely. You may not be uh completely free from this.
But, uh, to a certain extent you can drag yourself a little out, you know.
With this experience, not to overplay it, but downplay what is happening with you. Don't take it too seriously. Yeah, it happens, it happens. You know, diseases happens.
You know, people they have tendency. If something bad is happening, they become really morose about this. If something good is happening, they become really elated.
You know, the body is trying to moderate it a little bit. Even if you cannot be exactly in the middle, you know, still you're little closer to the middle than anyone else. So I have a I have a follow-up question perhaps.
How do you deal with the upādhis that are actually traumatic.
Like people have traumatic experiences from childhood or maybe from past life or maybe poor parenting etc etc and that when they come to Krishna consciousness they think okay um I don't have to deal with it because I just follow the process of bhakti and chant Hare Krishna and everything will go away.
I know how we deal with it in the in the West and this this I mean there's a lot of people taking medication that uh they were told not to because you you know when you chant Hare Krishna everything is gonna be fine, everything is gonna be equalized and has proven to be a mistake.
So how how do you personally deal with this?
See if you need to take medication, you need to take medication. If it's such a severe case that you have to really moderate the activity of your if the trauma is so deep, then you know that hormonal balance is totally thrown out and you know it's imbalanced, then you have to take medication.
Because what medication does, it it basically it doesn't heal the trauma but it brings you a little bit in the middle by you know bringing the bringing the hormones uh and uh mediators in the brain uh somewhere to the to the middle level or to the normal level, so to speak.
But if we even take this Western method, psychological method. What is the mechanism of Western psychology?
Western psychology basically takes you back to this experience and try to live out the same experience in your present consciousness, which is much less vulnerable than the consciousness of the child when the trauma was there.
And living out this experience, you actually have less less traumatic saṁskāra, less deep saṁskāra. You know, like for example, it's a silly example, but still it's a valid example because it's the same with other stuff.
You know, some people have some phobias, and uh some people are very much afraid of spiders, spider phobia, or whatever, snake phobia.
And it's probably because of some childhood trauma when they saw this spider, and this spider so ugly, you know, it became really And it's left very deep saṁskāra. But as an adult, you know if you encounter some spider, there
There will be not such a deep saṁskāra in your mind. You will not be so afraid.
So if you try to go back to this experience in the childhood from the vantage point of your adult consciousness and you understand that actually what happened
maybe not such a big deal, then the saṁskāra becomes less deep, and because saṁskāra becomes less deep, it's not so much troubling to you anymore. You know, this is what they do.
You know, they try to disconnect or emotionally discharge this saṁskāra from the emotions which were attached to it.
You know, because different people, according to the level of their vulnerability or insecurity, they will experience the same experience in a completely different way. Somebody will be messed up and somebody will not be messed up.
Somebody will be, you know, okay, you know, okay, so what's the big deal?
You know, uh I I'm not saying that, you know, uh all the horrible things which are going on now in the world with the child children is okay, but you know, some of them can be experienced in a lighter way.
So what I want to say is that you know if you need to take medication it's
Role of devotee community in healing
if you need to go to a psychotherapist uh and uh to go through this process of uh you know uh psychotherapeutic healing it's also fine uh you know, it has to be done. But uh in a certain way, if you experience
and again I I don't recommend it as a universal recipe for all the cases but uh in a certain way if you really
you know if you have a close devotee friend and if you can share this experience with him and if he can give you some objective sort of analysis of what was going on at that time, then it can be to a certain extent a substitute of a professional help.
If you need professional help, fine. Take professional help.
But the process of Krishna consciousness, or rather, not the process itself, not just chanting of Hare Krishna, but the devotee association can be very healing in this regard.
And that's why Ravindra Swarup Prabhu he gave this seminar of healing the souls in Vaishnava communities. If the devotees really know what is going on and how to help others, we really can.
I think we can, because devotees are the natural psychologists. What is actually our scriptures?
The scriptures they explain the psychology, the psychology of a conditioned soul, of the conditioned mind, the psychology of liberated souls are explained in the, you know, in Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu, Ujjvala-nīlamaṇi, and psychology of the conditioned souls also explained plenty in Bhagavad-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam also.
So, you know, the like for example, you asked my personal experience, my personal uh thing. Many times I was in a very difficult situation. Many times I was on the brink of complete breakdown.
One such situation was very dramatic and traumatic. Of course, I have quite you know I relatively healthy healthy mind. But still, it was very difficult experience.
And you know, at that time, Bhakti Brindha Govinda Maharaj came to me and I started crying at him, and I was crying probably for now for one hour non-stop at his chest and he didn't say anything.
He was just there, you know, patting me on the head and it was gone. You know, and uh what is left from this experience only gratitude to Bhakti Bhakti Brunga Govinda Maharaj. Deep, deep some scar of gratitude to him.
Nothing really traumatic left from this. Because I had this good association and he was not really giving me Krishna conscious advice. He was not doing all this kind of nonsense stuff. He was just my friend at that time.
He was there with me. He was patting me at the head. No, that was it. And I knew that He is there and He knows what is going on within my heart and He shared it with me and I was relieved from this experience.
So, you know, and I believe in what Ravindra Svarūpa Prabhu said, that the devotional communities has to become such places where people are coming to heal their souls.
And we're living in Kali-yuga, everyone is wounded. Everyone is uh is very much traumatized by all kinds of experiences. And some of traumatic experience we get in ISKCON, that's also true.
But but if we really become you know healers to each other, if we try to try to, if we if this is the you know the emphasis of our devotional life to help other people uh to become more healthy.
Uh that's possible and devotees are equipped with this because they have compassion, they have uh they have so many other good qualities, they have understanding, they have soft heart.
You know it's um but we we have to have some association of such devotees to be able to take advantage of it. I don't know if I answered your question or not.
Yes you answer it and then some. I I I I appreciate your candor and your explanation. Mm-hmm. Uh I think we we can wrap it up.
Uh it's been very kind and generous of you to offer us your time and wisdom. Um okay we have one quick question by Marina. You can unmute yourself and then then we'll go to wrap it up. Go ahead.
Hi, Krsna Maharaja. Uh, I'm from Boston, visiting hearing it now, very enjoying it. You ha you were in retreat here, it's just a wonderful time. So then thank you for being with us.
And um I'm actually with a student in Bhakti School who wanted to uh the battery organizing. Okay.
And now I know there is a this new um course on Gosvāmīs of Vṛndāvana. And uh I'm taking this course and of course I couldn't do this I used to advertise this course too.
Saravatma Prabhu. And I have just the question, is it possible to have it in English so they can enjoy it?
And actually that would be I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but it's uh very good to have an example of um people such that uh Gosvāmīs of Vṛndāvana because it's a really, really um challenging lives that they have and how they overcame all these difficulties and distresses.
So that's would be really great addition I guess to our life and knowledge. Thank you. Let me explain two words about what Marina was saying. We producing a series of very professionally done films.
There was a lot of research that went into this about the lives of the Gosvāmīs of Vṛndāvana. It's in Russian unfortunately, but it's really professionally done videos. I don't exactly know how many parts of it, but it's many.
It's at least 10 parts video. You know, fully researched with all kinds of beautiful footage.
And along with these videos, as an attachment to these videos, we are producing also a series of lectures about the teachings of each and every Gosvāmī, Jīva Gosvāmī, of course, Rūpa Gosvāmī, Sanātana Gosvāmī. So the videos will be translated or at least dubbed into English.
That's I think is already being done. I don't know if it will be subtitles or you know something will be there. Regarding the course, uh I'm not sure because most of the speakers may not be fluent in English.
I'm I'm giving a part of it, but not only myself, others as well. I don't know what they're going to do. But keeping in mind the English-speaking audience, um, whatever will happen will happen.
I'm not a hundred percent sure what is going on, but I I think videos will be translated into English, that's for sure, and they're really good videos. I I highly recommend this.
I saw them, I was so impressed, very beautiful footage and amazing details about the, uh, stories of, you know, uh, histories, biographies of Goswamis, especially Rūpa and Sanātana Gosvāmī, and of course Jīva Gosvāmī.
So perhaps, Maharaj, you can keep us keep me informed. You can send me a note if, uh, the videos are translated, I will I'd be happy to pass it on yeah, to the rest.
Now I I would like to invite all the devotees to unmute themselves and show their gratitude personally to you, who are, uh, a shining example of what it means to be a modern gosvāmī, giving us what we are lacking, which is Krishna consciousness with realization.
Thank you. Thank you very much.