Bhagavad-gita 13.22. How to break the chain of karma
Бхакти Вигьяна Госвами · Muscat · 2019
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Recitation of Bhagavad-gita verse
Omna mo Bhagavate Vasudevaya Sudeva, Omna mo Bhagavate Vasudeva. Omna mo Bhavate vasudevaya,
revasude paya, narainam namaskritiam, Naram Chaiva Narottamah, Nam Chaiva Narotama, Deviam Saraswati, Devi Saraswati Pyasam Tataya Mudhiraya Tato Jaya Modiya Hare Krishna
So I will read 22nd verse from the 13th chapter of Bhagavad Gita as it is: Nature, danger and consciousness.
Purusah, prakritistah, bunkte, prakriti jam, gunam, karanam, guna Sangaha asya sadasat, yoni jamasu, purusach prakritistohi, stohi, bunkte prakriti jangunamte prakriti, karanam guna sangosya, sadadasa dhionijanmaso the
living entity prakritista being situated in the material energy.
He suddenly Bhunkte enjoys prakriti jan produced by the material nature, gun the modes of nature, karanam, the cause, guna sanghaha, sangha, das association with the modes of nature, asya of the living entity, sadasad, in good and bad, Yoni Species of Life Jan Maso in birth.
Translation. The living entity in the material nature thus follows the ways of life, enjoying the three modes of nature. This is due to his association with that material nature.
Thus he meets with good and evil among various pieces of life. Purport by His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda.
This verse is very important for an understanding of how the living entities transmigrate from one body to another.
It is explained in the second chapter that the living entity is transmigrating from one body to another just as one changes dress. This change of dress is due to his attachment to material existence.
As long as he is captivated by this false manifestation, he has to continue transmigrating from one body to another. Due to his desire to lord it over material nature, he is put into such undesirable circumstances.
Under the influence of material desire, the living entity is born sometimes as a demigod, sometimes as a man, sometimes as a beast, as a bird, as a worm, as aquatic, as a saintly man, as a bug. This is going on.
And in all cases, the living entity thinks himself to be the master of his circumstances. Yet he is under the influence of material nature. How he is put into such different bodies is explained here.
It is due to association with the different modes of nature. One has to rise therefore above the three modes of nature and become situated in the transcendental position. This is called Krishna consciousness.
Unless one is situated in Krishna consciousness, his material consciousness will oblige him to transfer from one body to another because he has material desires since time immemorial. But he has to change that conception.
That change can be effected only by hearing from authoritative sources. The best example is here: Arjuna is hearing the signs of God from Krishna,
the living entity, if he submits to this hearing process, he will lose his long cherished desire to dominate material nature,
and gradually and proportionately as he reduces his long desires to dominate, he comes to enjoy spiritual happiness.
In the Vedic mantra it is said that as he becomes learned in association with the Supreme Personality of Godhead, He proportionately relishes the eternal blissful life. Śrīla Prabhupāda ki jaya!
Puruṣaḥ prakṛti-stho hi bhuṅkte prakṛti-jān guṇān kāraṇaṃ guṇa-saṅgo ’sya sad-asad-yoni-janmasu. Omit Nama oṁ viṣṇa-pādāya kṛṣṇa-preṣṭhāya bhū-tale śrīmate bhaktivedānta-svāmin iti nāmine.
Namaste sārasvate deve gaura-vāṇī-pracāriṇe nirviśeṣa-śūnyavādi-pāścātya-deśa-tāriṇe. Vāñchā-kalpatarubhyaḥ ca kṛpā-sindhubhya eva ca patitānāṁ pāvanebhyo vaiṣṇavebhyo namo namaḥ.
Omit Jaya Śrī-Kṛṣṇa-Caitanya Prabhu-nityānanda Śrī-Advaita Gadādhara Śrivādi-gaura-bhakta-vṛnda.
Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare
Application of spiritual philosophy
Omit Omit Omit Hare Kṛṣṇa. Again I am very happy to be with you this evening and I will try to say something which which can be useful or practical for our day to day life.
Because philosophy is only good as long as we are capable to apply this philosophy in our life. Otherwise, it's a good philosophy, nice philosophy. The book is there, it's standing in the shelf.
But the point of this book is to take this philosophy inside us. And Sri Krishna in Bhagavad Gita, in this particular verse, is telling us the reason why we are stuck in material nature, why we are undergoing this change of bodies,
why we are going from one body to another, meeting with good and bad, sadasat yoni janmasu. Why we are suffering in this material world. And he says there is only one reason for this. Our own desire. Nothing else.
Sometimes when we meet with some bad circumstances in our life we start saying no no, why it is happening to me? But again, the answer to this why is only one. Because I wanted it. Nobody else is guilty.
My desire was there. My desire to enjoy in a particular way, my desire to dominate the material nature in a particular way, this is the cause.
And as soon as I am free from this desire, I will be free from this material contamination and from this material slavery. Purushah prakriti stouhi.
It is practically Krishna is saying that the living entity, Purusha, the soul is stuck in prakriti. Why? Bungte prakriti djangunan?
Because he wants to experience this material happiness born from material nature, from prakriti.
Sometimes people they meet with such statements from Bhagavad-gītā that prakṛtiḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ — everything is being done by prakṛti. And sometimes they misuse this philosophy.
This is how our acharyas explain this verse, why Krishna says this verse? To counteract this misunderstanding which is very common in Indian philosophy. Sometimes people say, no, I'm not enjoying this nature.
Uh only my body is enjoying. I met personally one uh one one such pandit while I was traveling from Kolkata to Navadvīp, I was sitting there in front of me, was this Bengali gentleman, and he was smoking a cigarette.
And he started speaking about Bhagavad Gita and Lord Chaitanya and this and that.
And I asked him simple question, being a, you know, simple ISKCON brahmacārī. I asked him, that's very nice what you're saying, but why you're smoking a cigarette. And he said, no, I'm not smoking cigarettes, it's my body smoking cigarette. I'm not smoking, it's my body smoking.
So, and then there was a long philosophical discussion. And uh but uh this is very common.
I met another person, he was a follower of Lord Chaitanya, and he loved uh coffee. And I asked him why do you drink coffee? Because coffee is not so good, it's some sort of you know changing your consciousness.
He says, because coffee is black and Krishna is black. And I put milk in the coffee and it became golden like Lord Chaitanya So it reminds me about Lord Chaitanya. So all kinds of excuses are there.
People people are trying to enjoy. You know, they may say whatever they like, they may say that my body is smoking, but it's you who want to enjoy this smoke. Why? Only God knows.
Because of this beginningless karma, because of this impression which are there in your soul, you have this vasanas, you have all these desires to enjoy this material nature.
DESIRE TO LORD OVER NATURE
And that's the problem. That's a very big problem which we very clearly have to understand. Our desire, as Prabhupāda puts it, to lord it over material nature, to dominate material nature.
In different ways, with different designations, this position, that position, you know this all different varieties of the same old desire to enjoy the goodness of material nature.
Jayapatākā Mahārāja tells a beautiful story about Prabhupāda. He says once Prabhupāda was staying in a temple in Montreal. And in Montreal there was a cockroach in his room.
So they caught this cockroach and Prabhupada took this cockroach, he came to the window and he said, I am giving you this material world, enjoy it. And he threw it in the window. And closed the window.
And uh this is how Prabhupāda is teaching us. We are not much different from this cockroach. Don't think that you are different from this cockroach.
We are crawling in this material world in the jungles of this material world, trying, You know, cockroaches is enjoying his cockroach enjoyments and we are enjoying our cockroach enjoyments.
There's not much difference because it's the same guṇas experienced with the same soul, which has nothing to do with the guṇas of material nature, with the modes of material nature.
Ultimately the soul is spirit, though the spirit cannot by definition enjoy matter. But Krishna gave us this very unique material body which helps us to have an impression that we are enjoying.
The body is experiencing something, there are some kinds of you know waves in our brain. And the soul is there, sitting there. And the soul is infested with this desire.
The soul is really infected with this desire to enjoy material nature. And therefore, whatever experience we have, the soul interprets as the enjoyment. This bhaktritva.
What Śrīla Prabhupāda is saying here is that the desire to enjoy is there in the soul, and as long as it's there, you will transmigrate from one body to another. There will be some varieties of enjoyment.
You know, bug is enjoying in one way. Like Prabhupāda says, sometimes you're born as a saintly person. And sometimes you're born as a bug. Not much difference. And Prabhupāda is very bold.
He says, you know, even he counts among those species who are enjoying in this material world even, saintly persons, so-called saintly persons.
Those saintly persons who are enjoying by their saintliness, by their sattva-guṇa. So bug is enjoying in one way, saintly persons is enjoying his way. But there is not much difference.
Transition from guna-sanga to sadhu-sanga
Ultimately there is not much difference. So there should be some what what makes the difference? What really makes the difference in our life.
Śrīla Prabhupāda explains this in the next in the second paragraph of this purport where he says that guṇa-saṅga should be changed into sādhu-saṅga.
Now we are into this kāraṇa-guṇa-saṅga asyā. The reason of this experience of these desires is continuous association with the modes of material nature. This guṇa-saṅga. That's the reason kāraṇa.
Kāraṇa guṇa-saṅga we experience these modes of material nature and this insatiable thirst to enjoy this material nature goes on and propels us in our material life.
But he says the only qualitative difference can take place when we meet with a devotee. What happens in this case we have to very clearly understand because this is a science.
This is not such some theoretical understanding. This is a science.
We have this desire to enjoy, and we may continue to enjoy in different ways by different designations, by different positions. I enjoy this way, that way. You know, but what happens when we meet with the devotee?
When we meet with the devotee, what should happen when we meet with the devotee. This desire should subside. And ultimately it should be replaced by very ardent desire to be with Krishna.
And Śrīla Prabhupāda says that this is a process which takes some time and he says that proportionately, gradually, gradually, our desire to enjoy this material nature subsides, diminishes, and the desire to be with Krishna, our spiritual desire, increases more and more and more.
In other words, Śrīla Prabhupāda gives us a very beautiful criteria of spiritual advancement, of spiritual progress. We shouldn't think that our spiritual progress is defined by our position,
you know, I may be GBC, Guru, this and that. This is not spiritual progress. This is just serving designations. But real spiritual progress is not in this position. This is all material. You know, your GBC.
You will not be GBC in Vaikuṇṭha. There is no GBC in Vaikuṇṭha. And there is no gurus in Vaikuṇṭha either. In Vaikuṇṭha, everyone is Dāsa Dāsa and Anudāsa. This is the highest aspiration which we have.
So sometimes we may think about the spiritual progress as you know as some sort of you know this and that position. No, this is not like this.
The spiritual progress is measured according to our desire to enjoy material nature. And if this desire does not diminish, we don't make any spiritual progress. But if this desire diminishes, we make spiritual progress.
Hearing from authoritative sources
That's the criteria which we have to be very clear about. And the whole sadhu sanga process is for this. What happens when we hear sadhu? Prabhupāda is very beautifully explained this.
He says that you know, the best example, the change can be effected only by hearing from authoritative sources. Śrīla Prabhupāda again and again stresses this particular point, not just hearing.
We all know that spiritual life starts with hearing. Śravaṇaṁ Kīrtanaṁ Viṣṇu Smaraṇaṁ Pāda. This is the first process, most important process, we have to hear, have to hear.
But Śrīla Prabhupāda always stresses this one point, hearing from authoritative source. What does it mean?
It basically means what happens when we hear from authoritative source, we hear the message from the spiritual world. We hear the direct message which is coming from this sphere of existence which is free from duality.
In this material world we enjoy dualities. I like this, I don't like this, you know, this is good, this is bad.
We always have this Raga and Vesha, Raga Dvesha Samuthyana Dva Dvanva Mohyana Bharata, and this sphere of duality.
And then when we hear from authoritative sources, this is the message from non-dual world, from world where everything is Advaya Jana. Advaya Jyan means non-dual consciousness. But there is no dualities.
And when we hear this, our consciousness gradually and almost automatically, almost imperceptibly for us, becomes elevated to this sphere of existence where there is no duality.
In other words, the desire to lord it over, the desire to lord it over material nature actually manifests in my desire to define what is good, what is bad.
When we hear the authoritative sources, when we hear sadhu, real sadhu. We understand very simple thing. There is nothing good and there is nothing bad in this material world.
This is a very difficult thing to digest and very difficult thing to understand intellectually. It's actually impossible to understand intellectually.
How is it like this that there is nothing good and there is nothing bad? Because we're used to it. With so much programming. This program is so deep in us.
I want to enjoy what is good, I don't want to I I I hate what is bad, I I don't want to have anything to do with what is bad. How is that there is nothing good and there is nothing bad? It's very difficult to understand.
But when we hear real sadhu, all of a sudden some flash comes to our consciousness. That's right. My attempts, my endeavors to enjoy this material nature is actually futile.
There is nothing good and there is nothing bad in this. I'm just trying to measure this from my point of view, but there is higher point of view, Krishna consciousness.
And from Krishna's point of view, there is nothing good in this material world and there is nothing bad. Everything is either good or bad, no matter how you call it. It's not important.
When we say that something is good, the moment when we say on when when we feel, oh, this is very good, this is really good, oh, this is really good, it means that you will suffer.
You will suffer when this good will change. And in this material world, everything is changing. As soon as you say this is good, you're getting attached to this good.
And you automatically say, oh no, I don't want something else. And something else will come and then you will suffer. So you're getting attached again and again and again.
When you hear from the authoritative sources, all of a sudden you understand, no, this is all bad. There is no Jews here. There is nothing to enjoy here in this material world.
And Prabhupāda gives the example of Arjuna. Arjuna was saying, oh, this war is bad. The fighting is bad. Killing is bad. And Krishna is saying there is said, no, no, it's not bad. Just do it. It's neither bad nor good.
Just do it because you're supposed to do it. This is not the point. Stop judging. This is the point. Do not what you want. Do what I want. Don't judge what is good, what is bad from your point of view. Please don't do it.
Don't manifest this stupid desire to enjoy material nature. Just accept the order which is coming from Krishna, which is coming from this non-dual sphere of consciousness.
And what happens in this moment, then the desires to enjoy material nature becomes less and less and less.
We have to be very clear about this point that if we hear somebody or and the desire to enjoy material nature does not diminish, something is wrong. Something is not really taking place.
And my desire to be with Krishna is not increasing. My attraction to Krishna is not increasing. Something is wrong with this hearing process. This is bhakti. When we hear is bhakti. And bhakti means love.
When we hear about Krishna, our attraction to Krishna is supposed to increase. Our absorption in Krishna is supposed to increase. Our interest, our Ruchi, taste for Krishna is supposed to increase.
And if instead our Ruchi or material taste remains the same. Something is wrong with this process of hearing. So, this is what I wanted to explain, or this is what Śrīla Prabhupāda actually, not I wanted to explain.
This is what Śrīla Prabhupāda is explaining to us. We have to really clearly understand that only happy situation is with Krishna.
Śrīla Prabhupāda quotes here the verse from Taittiriya Upaniṣad. And this verse from Taittiriya Upaniṣad says then when you reach God, Brahman, spiritual sphere, all your material desires will be fulfilled. All your material desires will be fulfilled.
Analogy of single-pointed desire
And then only you will be completely happy. There is one little story which I wanted to tell in this regard. Once there was a young man, and this young man came to a sādhu.
And he came to his sādhu and said, please teach me how to become sādhu. Please tell me I want to become sādhu, I want to become wise man. And this sādhu disregarded him. He didn't even look at him. He was doing his business.
And this young man he was actually very insistent. He would come again and again and again and said, please teach me. I really want, I really want, I really want.
And ultimately, after a few days, sādhu said, okay, if you want to become wise man, if you want to become sādhu, come with me. And they came to a point. And sādhu said, let's take bath, let's first purify ourselves.
And this young man came with him to water. And they came to some distance in the water. And then all of a sudden, this sādhu catch him in his head and put his head in the water.
And this sādhu was really strong, he was eating nice prasāda, so probably so he was strong, he was elderly but still strong.
So this young man was he was there under the water, you know, for some time and you know he was struggling. And ultimately, this sādhu, you know, released him.
And sādhu looked at him and said, what was happening with you when you were underwater? He said, I wanted to breathe. He said, really? You wanted to breathe? Didn't you want to enjoy? Didn't you want to eat?
Didn't you want to sleep? He said, no, no, I didn't want to sleep. I didn't want to eat. I didn't want to do anything. I only wanted to breathe. That's the only desire which I have.
He said, when you will have such strong spiritual desire, then only you will become a sādhu. As long as you have some other desires and some little desire to become a devotee. Yeah, it's there also. Just in case it helps.
Just in case it helps to enjoy me better in this material world. It doesn't work. It's... it doesn't work. What really is required to become a devotee when you become one-pointed.
Today we were in a family where the daughter's name is Ananya. Ananya is a very nice name. Ananya. Anya means something else. Ananya means nothing else.
Ananya when we have this ananya consciousness of ananya, ananya bhakti, pure bhakti, then only this is bhakti. Everything else is not bhakti.
Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī is very clear about this. He says that bhakti means anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam jñāna-karma-āvṛtam. And this is the ideal which we have to have. Otherwise, our bhakti doesn't count.
Krishna consciousness versus ordinary religion
It's just. it's a part of our material life. Like Śrīla Prabhupāda often says that Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not a religion. And it's a very shocking statement. What is it?
Because religion is just the way or device to be comfortable in this material world. Nothing else. And then you you employ God for this, you pray to God, God make me comfortable, make me better in this material world.
But this is not Krishna consciousness. You ultimately want to remain in this material world, and yes, you want to be little pious with some sattvic inclinations, you're there, dharma is there, this is there.
But this is not Krishna consciousness. Krishna consciousness means you're done with these modes of material nature. You know very clear that there is no hope in this material place. In this material world, there is no hope.
In Russian, I don't know how it is in English, but in Russian there is a very beautiful saying that the hope dies last. You know, and we know it.
You know, people may be very old, very sick, and still they have the hope to enjoy. You know, I I I knew one 90-year-old lady, and she was saying, I want to live just a little bit more, little bit more.
See, you know, the body is not really suitable for enjoyment. Still, this desire to enjoy with this body is so strong. This attachment to this body is so strong, so extremely strong.
So this saying is very nice because it says the hope dies last, uh you know you you there is no hope, but you're still hopeful.
You're still hopeful to enjoy this material life, you're still hopeful to somehow rather to adjust the circumstances of this material life that everything will become very nice.
So there is there is a continuation of this saying hope dies last but it should be killed first. We should really kill this stupid hope. You know, only after that we will be able to practice bhakti.
Bhakti is a very simple process, but it only is effective if we are sincere. And sincerity basically means we are very clear that there is no happiness in this material world.
Whatever we call happiness is just another side of the coin of enjoy of suffering. Every happiness brings unhappiness.
We don't want suffering in this material world, we don't want happiness in this material world, we want bliss of spiritual life.
And bliss of spiritual life, you know, there's no duality in the bliss of spiritual life and this experience of spiritual life. In the material life, there is always happiness and unhappiness. Sada sad yoni janmasu.
Good yoni, good births, bad births, good karma, bad karma. There is no good karma. Sometimes people and even devotees they come to astrology and say how to improve my karma. You cannot improve your karma.
There is no good karma in this world. Because ultimately, karma means you will have to die. Ultimately, karma means you will have to part with your near and dear ones. What is good about this?
Ultimately karma means suffering. And you will have to be born again if you have the desire. Śrīla Prabhupāda is very clear about this.
If at the moment of death you have even one desire, just one desire, just one little desire, it means you will be born again. And you will develop so many other desires.
Heart-level transformation through sound
Because desires never go alone. It always proliferates more and more and more. So we have to be very clear and Krishna is very clear here.
You know, when we hear the devotees, the point of hearing the devotees is actually to be purified from these desires. Because when we hear the devotees, the samskara, the impression from this hearing goes very deep.
If this is the authoritative process of hearing, it goes right to the soul. It doesn't go to the mind. It goes to the heart. When we hear this, sometimes you know I I sometimes
I hear some remembrances about Śrīla Prabhupāda. Prabhupāda, when he was speaking, you know, sometimes devotees didn't understand anything. And Prabhupāda was very actually was very insisting.
Once he was in Vṛndāvana and he was giving darśan to some Hindi-speaking people and he was speaking in Hindi to them. And his Western disciples were there sitting nearby and they were listening for some time
and then they got up and wanted to go away. And Prabhupāda said, sit down. Listen. They said, Prabhupāda, we didn't understand anything. Prabhupāda says you anyway don't understand. Just hear the voice.
Because this voice, this is the message from the spiritual world. This is the message from non-dual consciousness, from another sphere of existence.
And it's not to your mind, it's not to your intelligence, it's to your heart, it's to your soul.
And when we hear as the pure devotee chants Hare Rāma, Hare Krishna, Krishna, Krishna, Hare Hare, Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare, we get the experience.
This is what Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī explains when he comments in Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu about the process of bhakti. He says, dvāra kiñcid-anubhūtiḥ syāt. It means that by hearing you have to get, you will have to
get little experience, little glimpse of spiritual reality, of another reality.
And if you get this glimpse, this experience, in other words, if you hear and nothing changes in your heart, nothing changes, then something is wrong.
But if you hear and some sort of affection is there, you're affected by this hearing process very deeply. Somehow or other that there is something, some some sort of new energy. Yes, I want. I want to be a devotee.
I want to be a pure devotee. I don't want to have anything to do with this material world. Then only this is the proper hearing. And then only the alternative to guna Sangha is taking place in our life.
Otherwise there is only guna sangha. Otherwise there is, only association with the modes of material nature.
And when we associate with other people, we associate with their modes of material nature. Somebody is more sättvika, somebody is more rājasika, we associate with somebody who is rājasika, we give up more Rajasik, we associate with somebody who is more satvik, we give them more satvik.
But when we associate with devotees, this desire to be with Krishna becomes very strong, or at least a little stronger. Yes, I want to be with Krishna. Yes, I want to love Krishna.
Yes, I want to be in another world where everyone is loving each other. And there is no selfishness in this world, there is no karma, there is no lust in this world. I want to be with Krishna.
So this is how the change takes place. The change only takes place through the association. And association, the essence of association is hearing. The essence of hearing is change of the heart.
If there is hearing, but it's mechanical. If the change of the heart doesn't take place, it's not proper hearing. If the experience doesn't come, the experience of bliss doesn't come, something is wrong.
That's why we're here, that's why we're hearing and of course I'm not claiming to be in this level but I just thought that I will explain this very beautiful or repeat what Śrīla Prabhupāda is explaining.
Ultimately, we have to hear Prabhupada again and again and again. And this is so beautiful. Yesterday I was driving in a car with one devotee, and he turned on the lecture of Śrīla Prabhupāda.
And Śrīla Prabhupāda he was saying very beautiful things. He said, you know Krishna consciousness is so nice because it's non-dual, there is no duality in Krishna consciousness.
He said, even if the ant is there, somehow or other if you put a garland to the deity and the ant is there in the garland and he's crawling over the deity, he said this ant is not different from the pujari. You know, this little ant who is crawling on Krishna, he's not different from the pujari.
You know, and you hear this and you understand, oh my goodness, this is so nice. Krishna consciousness is so nice.
You know, Krishna is waiting for us, Krishna is there for us, Krishna wants us to be finished, to be done with this material duality, with all this futile and miserable attempt to enjoy the material desires.
Like Prabhupāda very beautifully says in this purport that your material desires put you into an undesirable situation. Because of material desires, you are in this undesirable situation. So what to do with this?
Get rid of material desires. How to get rid of material desires again and again hear the proper source. And if you're hearing the proper source, the change will take place in your heart and you will develop spiritual desires which will ultimately burn away all your material desires.
Thank you very much. I promised to finish at 830 and I did what I'm supposed to do. Thank you.
Personal association versus recorded lectures
Any questions? We briefly explain the importance of hearing. When it comes to hearing, there are two kinds of hearing: one directly hears from the sādhu, like right now, or also listening to his lectures.
Do both of these hearings have the same effect? No, it's not the same effect. Therefore, in Vedic tradition there is so much stress into this darśana.
Darśana basically means you come and you personally see the effect, the influence of personal association is more, because of course it's good if you don't have anything else, it's good to hear recorded lectures. But it's not the same because the impression goes deeper.
When you hear just lectures it may uh impress your mind intelligence which is good which is not bad but it may not go deeper, but when you personally associate with the sādhu the impression goes much deeper.
So as much as possible we have to try to associate personally with sādhu and hear personally.
I heard a joke, you know, sometimes people they you know they record all these lectures and then after that they never hear them. I have them, you know, it's no problem.
But first of all when you hear some recorded lecture your attention is not as great. You know, you're doing something this and that, and you're also hearing. You're not so concentrated on this.
But then the joke, very nice joke, is that a recorder is black. And Śrīmatī Rādhārāṇī says all black things are cheaters. So she's saying addressing to Krishna, but it's true according to recorders.
You don't get the same, in other words. The personal thing is much more important. Yes. Thank you for the wonderful class. Just want to ask this question. Hearing is very important, but when we hear as a conditioned soul,
even the message that we are hearing is also filtered with layers of mental whatever. So how do we overcome this? Yes, thank you very much. It's a very important question.
When we hear being conditioned, we are filtering what we hear through our ego and mind, intelligence and so on, so forth, so it doesn't go so much deeper.
That's exactly the fact that—that's exactly why Śrīla Prabhupāda says that we should hear the pure devotee because the
pure devotee uh the impression from his hearing goes directly somehow or other it has the direct experience. And then I have my own experience and I have some other experiences.
When we hear real sādhu, a guru, all of a sudden you have this experience, oh ho, yeah, I knew it. Or sometimes it's like this. We heard so many times, you're not this body, you're not this body, you're not this body.
And then you hear it for the 1000th and the first time. And all of a sudden you hear, and then you understand, yes, I know this body. Before that, I realized it or I understood it on a level of my intelligence.
But all of a sudden it goes somewhat deeper. And you understand, yes, right. Now I understand what it means.
So that's exactly what I mean when Śrīla Jīva Gosvāmī says, Śravaṇa dvārā kiñcid-anubhūtiḥ syāt. By hearing some anubhūti, some experience should come to us. Hearing again, it's good for the intellect, for the mind,
but we forget about this. What the main importance of hearing is that it leaves an impression upon the soul. It leaves deeper impression upon the soul, and this saṁskāra becomes the driving force because what is saṁskāra?
Saṁskāra is the driving force behind everything which we are doing. Who are we? We are just a bunch of saṁskāras. Bunch of mental impressions. Bunch of desires.
So you know the the real effect of hearing is that it goes to the soul and it awakens the soul and then the soul the desire to be with Krishna becomes stronger due to this hearing process. That's how it is.
So that's uh the—the hearing of a sādhu has the capacity to penetrate uh through the layers of conditioning. And that's only it's liberating. There is no other way to liberate ourselves. No other way, no other way.
Only sādhu-saṅga. Therefore, Lord Caitanya says, sādhu-saṅga, sādhu-saṅga, sarva-śāstra-haya. Lava Matra Sadhu Sangha Sarvasid.
Just little association with sadhu may uh completely change your life because it will create uh face in your heart and the face will ultimately turn into something much deeper. So that's what it is.
When you talk about prasada, first time or whatever, even if it's a faithful lecture, not so that's it that is like a passive hearing. You're just having sound vibration going inside.
But at the same time we do a lot of stress about attentive hearing and uh then only uh it touches your intelligence or it touches your mind and some transformation happens. Is this correct?
Definitely hearing is an art and uh you know I was mostly speaking uh from the point of view of the speaker, you know, if we hear the proper source, then the message goes deep. If the source is very powerful.
If we try to analyze the same process from the point of view of the hearer, definitely, if we make an extra endeavor to open our heart towards this message, then it's easier for the message to go in.
And it means that we are attentive, we are concentrated, we are absorbed in hearing, we are trying to really understand the deeper message which is there, not just intellectual message but emotional content of it.
Definitely. Because hearing is a work. You know, if we do it properly, if we apply certain intelligence and force, it will become more effective.
Why I didn't mention about this only because I was speaking from the other from the other perspective.
I was speaking how important it is to hear somebody who has powerful realization and who is speaking directly from the spiritual world. Otherwise you are right. But that's another lecture.
Next time when I come I can talk about this. But uh thank you. has benefits. Is that the right conclusion? Yeah.
Service attitude in hearing
Even an attentive hearing has benefits if the source is proper.
But also there is this verse from Padma Purana, atah shri-krishna-namadi na bhaved gh-rihriyandriyaih, sevonmukhe hi jihvadau svayam eva sphuraty adah. Namadina Bhavit, Grahi Mandriya, Sevon Muke Hiji Vadoswame Vas Puratya Daha.
The real real effect of hearing will take place when the source is proper, no doubt about it, and when your attitude is proper. And your attitude is proper means that you have the service attitude.
Your hearing is a service. What is hearing? Hearing is the service. Usually we use our senses as the means to enjoy. And therefore when we hear, we always think when he will say some joke or when he will tell the story.
Because we want to enjoy by hearing. And this is not proper. The proper attitude while hearing is that this is my service.
And sevān-mukhe, if our senses become unmuka, sevā-unmuka, inclined for service, then only they experience will take place.
So therefore Śrīla Prabhupāda said, and it's easier to have this service attitude when you don't understand anything because you're not enjoying anything. You don't understand. You just sit there.
Because this is my service. That's exactly what Śrīla Prabhupāda meant. Just sit there and hear. Even if you don't understand anything. It may go deeper in this case.
There was this beautiful story which I wanted to tell, but I forget. I will tell it now because it's in this connection.
Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura Prabhupāda, he was, he said once that the essence of my message and my contribution is this dṛk-dṛśya-vicāra: the consideration of who is seeing and who is seen.
This consideration about seer, who is seeing, and who is seen.
And the idea here is that we have to become not the enjoyers of material nature, not the seers, but we have to develop this service attitude we are being seen by God.
So there was a little beautiful story in this regard, what it means actually. He was hammering this point again and again and again and he used
to say that when you eat prasāda, uh, if you have this attitude "I am eating prasāda", it's not proper, because you are serving prasāda. We are not eating prasāda. We actually should be eaten by prasāda ourselves.
So there was this little story once a Shastriji, a pandit, came
to Gauḍīya Maṭha and he was enjoying some feast, some sweets, malpua. He was eating malpua, and one of the disciples of, another of Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī, He looked at him how he.
And he asked, this Sastriji, are you eating Malpua or Malpua is eating you? And this Shastriji, he became so offended. He became so offended.
He got up, he went out of the math and he wrote a letter to Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī. He said, I came to your mat, I came to a feast and I
was so offended by your disciple because he said who is eating you are eating Malpua or Malpua is eating you because he understood that you know that he is so greedy that Malpua he's eating as if Malpua is eating him.
So he said, I'm I'm a rich man. I don't need your Malpua. You know, I just came here, you know, this and that. He wrote this letter and Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī he
read this letter to his disciples and he said, See, nobody understands this point. Nobody really understands what it means to serve, to be servant in this material world.
Because we are so programmed and so used to enjoy this material experiences. And he wrote back to him: you know, that don't worry, you know.
He wanted to say that you're not supposed to eat this Malpua, you're supposed to be eaten by this Malpua. Because Malpua is prasāda. It's non-different from the Lord.
How can you eat something which is not different from the Lord? It means that you are higher than the Lord. So that's basically the point.
Chanting with proper consciousness
So when we hear the same things should take place the service attitude that's the problem as we are into this conditioning and every day we morning get up and try to hear Hare Rāma Mahā-mantra.
So our chanting or our hearing is not pure. So how we can elevate ourselves because our hearing tools are not pure. So how we can like on this first of all when we chant we really have to understand who is chanting.
Everything that I am chanting, this is wrong, the holy name is supposed to descend upon us.
And therefore, the first thing which we have to do before we start chanting, we have to really get rid of this false ego, false identity.
If we think that this body is chanting the holy name, the body cannot chant the holy name. The body cannot touch Holy Name. Body is material, holy name is spiritual.
How body can touch the holy name? How the tongue can touch the holy name? So the first there has to be adjustment in our consciousness. I'm not this body. I'm not changing.
I'm begging the holy name to descend upon my tongue, upon my consciousness. And uh you know I'm I'm inviting the holy name to come. And the holy name has to go through me.
You know, like when we speak also, the attitude should be, it's not that I'm speaking. Krishna is speaking through me or my spiritual master is speaking through me
it's not that I am speaking my spiritual master is speaking through me I'm just an instrument I'm I'm serving by letting him speak through me.
And in the same way, I'm not changing. I'm just begging the holy name to somehow or other to manifest in my tongue. Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare Hare Ram Hare Rama Ram. Then it's proper.
If you think I'm changing, it's wrong. You will never get it. When you mention this point of in your ear, you should also think that I should be enjoying that lecture.
You mentioned that you should have a service attitude of hearing an action. Personally, if you felt told me that no, I felt it.
Most of the time when I hear a lecture, I feel um I I I feel I get an enjoyment of it, you know, hearing this lecture.
But when you said you know the attitude should be in a service how do we this service may bring us enjoyment. There's nothing wrong with it. But the goal should not be the enjoyment.
If initially our intention or goal or motivation is that I want to enjoy. That's wrong.
If my motivation, I want to open my heart towards this knowledge, it's not that I'm reading the scripture, this I'm opening my heart to the scripture.
To enter my heart and to change my heart. That's what is supposed to take place. In the same way, my motivation is not to enjoy, the enjoyment will come. Service brings enjoyment.
Service brings much more enjoyment than the attempts to lord it over material nature. That's why Krishna himself comes as Lord Chaitanya to enjoy service. He says, my devotees enjoy more. This is not fair.
I also want to become my devoted to to have this experience. So enjoyment will come, no problem. When we hear the lecture, it may bring so much enjoyment.
But my main motivation is that I don't want enjoyment, I want to serve by listening. I want to open my heart towards this sound which is coming from the spiritual sky.