Stages of spiritual development. Lecture1
Бхакти Вигьяна Госвами · Muscat · 2019
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Opening prayers and lecture introduction
Omagyanat mirandasyam, Vyanam Jana Salakayam, Chaksurun Militamy, Tasmai Sri Guravenam, Sri Chaitanyamanobisham, stapitame Bhuta, Swyamakadamayam, Dadatiswapad Antikam, Vandeham, s Sriri Guru Yuta Padakamalam,
Sri Gurun Vaishnavamscha, Sri Rupam Sagrajatam Sahagana Gunatam vitam sadjivam, sadwaiwit tamam sav Savadadutam parijana Sahitam Krishna Chaitanya Devam, Sri Radha Krishna Padam Sahaganavalita,
Sri Visakavitams, Hare Krishna Karuna Sindho, Deenabandhou Jagatpate, Gopisha Gopikakanta, Radakantana mostute, Taptakanshana Gurangi, Radhe Vrindavaneshwari, Vishabanu Sute Devi, Pranamami Haripriy, Vanchakalpatarubesha,
Kripa Sindu bevacha, Patitanam Pavani Biovaisnavi Byonawama
Jai Sri Krishna Chaitanya Prabhunitananda Sri Advaita Gadādhara Sivasadi Guru Bhakta Vrinda Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare Hare Rama Hare Ram Ram Hare
Hare Yanda Pradesh Mamavaj Mamamprasuktam Sanjae Vaya de Killashakti Dharaswadam I am very happy to be again, Madhuradesh of New Rajapur. New Rajapur And uh uh Rasakrida Parana Prabhu asked me to speak.
Three nights about some topic to develop some topic during three nights tonight on Sunday and Monday. And he asked me to speak on the topic of some of my seminars which I gave before.
And Mataji asked me to speak about chanting the holy name. So I decided to combine it. And I will speak what I will speak this three nights.
I will speak about the initial stages of spiritual development according to Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī. In Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu he gives this seminal verse,
Ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu-saṅgo, where he describes the stages of spiritual development. And these stages they ultimately have to come to bring us to the love of God, to prema. We're still very far away from this goal.
But it's very important to understand what's going on in this initial stages of spiritual development and what should we do? Because Srila Prabhupada he usually said that Krishna consciousness is a science.
And science means there are some scientific rules and some scientific understanding has to be there. Otherwise we will not progress from stage to stage. We will stuck on one particular stage.
And I will try to explain these things according to of course Viśvanātha Chakravarthi Thakur, who wrote the whole book on this topic, Mādhuryā-kādambinī, but also from some other books like Jiva Goswami and of course Prabhupada and my own deliberation on this topic as well.
And in my opinion, the incorrect understanding of this is a cause of many, many problems in this country. And in our society, in our personal life.
We sometimes feel that we are stuck somewhere, that we're not really moving somewhere, we're not making the next step and uh we're not even sure whether we want to make the next step or not or we want to remain where we are.
We are quite comfortable here.
Mapping holy names to spiritual growth
So there are many um connected issues, but uh it's interesting to note that Srila Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura in his Bhajana-rahasya starts the whole Bhajana-rahasya, the whole his whole uh
and Bhajanarahasi is supposed to be the guidebook of how to chant Hare Krishna mantra. So his whole approach to this topic of how to chant Hare Krishna mantra is according to the stages of spiritual development.
And from the very beginning, he says that while we're chanting, we have to kind of overview the whole spiritual path.
And in fact, if we take Siksastakam of Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, which is his only and most important composition where he basically included the whole philosophy of Krishna consciousness in just eight verses.
He starts the Shikshashtakam from the overview of the whole process. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjānaṃ bhava-mahādāvāgni-nirvāpanaṃ śreyaḥ-kairava-candrikā-vitaranaṃ vidyā-vadhū-jīvanam.
He more or less describes the whole process, and when we chant we uh very clearly have to see the path. Uh uh like in GPS. If you use GPS, then you know they show the path.
And uh initially they show the you know the whole pass and then details of each turn and you know uh and uh all different varieties of the base which you can take, so on and so forth.
And Bhaktivinoda says that initially, when we when we just chant, when we take our beads, he says that the whole Hare Krishna mantra is the description of the path. He says the first Hare Krishna is removal of ignorance.
The second Hare Krishna is is uh uh developing the face and so on so forth.
He's uh describing this eight pairs of Hare Krishna mantra, Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hari Hari Ram, Hari Ram, Ram Ram H So last Hari Hari is Prema. And initial Hare Krishna is just Hare Krishna.
But But uh what I want to say is that uh in the beginning we kind of we should have an overview. What is the path we are going to traverse?
Otherwise we will just sit there in our little hole, spiritual hole, hopefully spiritual hole. And think that we are already achieved everything. So it's a pass. It's uh it's a very dynamic process.
And uh to be dynamic in this dynamic process, but you know we the process is dynamic. We're not very dynamic, so we're not really coping up with the process itself.
And that's why I think it's important for us to understand this dynamic and to understand what are the peculiarities or specialties of every step. And what is there?
Transforming material ego into spiritual identity
What's what is actually happening? Because it's a mysterious process in one sense. And it's very difficult to describe.
There are different metaphors, and I will explain some of these metaphors, and I will also use some metaphor which I like to develop in this regard.
But in reality, what is supposed to be going on we have this material body and we have little tiny spirit soul which is inside the body, which is using this body as a machine to achieve certain purposes and goals in this material world.
And while chanting Hare Krishna, a completely different process is supposed to take place, the spiritual development. What is spiritual development?
What's happening with this little tiny miserable spirit soul which is inside? And what's happening with our body?
You know how whether the body is being spiritualized or the completely different body is growing up and whether it's growing or not. So these are different aspects.
I don't know how much I will cover within these three nights. But I'll I'll I'll start. Whatever. I'm not so prepared, but I'll I'll say something, whatever. Whatever is there, whatever Krishna will give me to speak about.
So, first of all, Śrīla Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura makes a very important statement. We all know that he basically says what is spiritual development?
Spiritual development is the process of replacing of material ego into spiritual ego. Ego,
we have ahaṅkāra, false ego, false identification. And this false identification in the process of spiritual development, during the spiritual practice, is supposed to be turned or to be transformed into spiritual ego.
Fully blossom spiritual ego, which basically means who I am in the spiritual world, what is my relationship with God?
What am I doing in this relationship, up to the details of spiritual emotions which I'm supposed to experience.
And it's very interesting and very important to understand that uh you know ultimately our path is the path of development of spiritual emotions.
And material ego creates material emotions, stress, anger, greed, shoka, moha, madsary, envy, you know, grief. All these material emotions. And Krishna in the 11th canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is very clear about this.
He says that all the material emotions which we experience here is coming from ego, not from the soul. He specifically says it's not coming from ātmā, it's coming from ahaṅkāra, from ego.
But then what is spiritual development? Spiritual development is transformation of this material emotions into the spiritual emotions, which are coming from the spiritual ego.
Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura specifically says that Mayavadis their idea is that you destroy your ego. No ego. No sense of I. I don't exist.
And this is false, we all know this is this is ultimately, you know, uh consciousness means I. This uh uh this is a very important part of of the nature of the consciousness.
So they say or they speak or they envision the whole spiritual development as the destruction of material ego. That's it. Bas. Nothing more. You know, you become zero.
But we know that Vaishnava philosophy means that we take it from the minus, uh, come to the zero point and then go to plus. You know, develop the positive understanding of who I am in relationship with God.
And this zero point is actually according to this um uh scale or to this um uh ladder of spiritual development uh is the stage of Nishta. The actual positive spiritual development starts from Nishta onwards.
Before Nishta, Shraddha, Sadhu Sangha, Bhajana-kriya, and Anartha Nivritti.
It's it's the removal of negative elements of our nature and very insignificant building up of some spiritual strensgth of spiritual development, it's definitely there. But you come to this zero point, which is Nisha.
And from zero point you go up to the spiritual realm. But nevertheless, these initial stages of spiritual development are very important. What's going on there and how to reach NISTA.
Because even NISTA is a very high stage. According to my worries, it's it's the highest. They don't go higher. Because uh in the stage of NISTA your uh uh identification with matter is destroyed.
You don't identify yourself anymore with this mind or with this body. And for them, that's the crown jewel, the you know the highest achievement.
For us it's it's just a very basic starting point to develop something really interesting. But still, nevertheless, NIST is a very significant point, and if we are lucky we will reach this point.
And from NIST onwards it's kind of. it's not easy, but it's um it's more clear because we're already very clear. Before the stage of NISTI, we're confused. Because our identity we're confused about our identity.
We don't really know who we are. And this is the question which Sanatana Goswami asked Caitanya Prabhu during his first meeting. I don't know who I am. And it's a fact, I don't know who I am. Who am I?
You know, am I this body which will die?
Comparing spiritual growth to child development
You know, and uh and uh anyway so Viswanatha Cakravarti Thakura he makes this very interesting statement that the whole process of spiritual development is the transformation of ego.
And uh but what what does it mean exactly? We will we will see more clearly. And he describes in some details how it goes on. For example, he says that I will not touch this. It's it's a very difficult part.
I will not confuse you even more. But But what I want to say is that uh initially that uh this identity, what is ego? Ego is identity. My understanding of who I am. I am this, I am that.
And when people have material identity, when they identify with this material body and material mind. The ego undergoes certain crises. These are in psychology they're called identity crises, you know, middle-aged crisis.
Or, you know, when you a child and then you become a teenager is a crisis.
Because the body changes and the soul, the consciousness, doesn't know what how to make, you know, the consciousness is not really changing, but the body is changing, and you know, the whole process is very painful because you have to adjust.
And then for some time, uh you are there in the middle age and there's not much changes, but then at one point you become an old man. And again, your body changes, and it's very difficult to adjust.
You already understand, oh, phew, my goodness. I am not as I was before. So this crisis uh which uh accompany uh the uh the material development. Material development it's always crisis.
And there is a very interesting branch branch of psychology, uh developmental psychology, which actually studies in details this crisis of development.
Little child, when he's really little, you know, when he's just a baby. He just came out from the womb. It's a big crisis for him. It's an identity crisis.
He was completely united with his mother's body and all of a sudden he's just he's separate uh from the body. It's a huge crisis.
And then, you know, his relationship with the mother, it's a crisis. It's a certain development. And so on so forth.
You know, and they study all these crises and how one uh undergoes these crises and um uh what's happening during these crisis and what they say.
The crisis is actually a very it's a turning point. And if you undergo this crisis in a successful way, you become more integrated.
And but it's not necessarily that you undergo this crisis in a successful way. In this way, you become less integrated. You become more estranged towards yourself and towards the society.
So, the metaphor which I would like to present to your judgment is Is the comparison of the spiritual development with the material development of a child. Because, you know, the spiritual development as much as the material ego develops and undergoes certain stages and certain
crises, in the same way when our spiritual ego starts developing in the process of spiritual development, the same sort of dynamic takes place.
You know, when we have just śraddhā, little tiny, tiny speck of faith, śraddhā the first, they're like spiritual babies.
You know, and uh this metaphor is used, you know, sometimes spiritual master is called as a father and the spiritual birth, the initiation is called the
second birth, and Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura he also calls śraddhā as a little baby.
So so that's what I would like with you to discuss and to think about how what's going on in our consciousness what is the spiritual development what are the processes which are going on. And what are the crises?
So, as much as if we don't go through the crisis, the material crisis, the identity crisis properly we are not really ready for the next stage. What is crisis? Krisis is the preparation for the next stage.
It's a certain structural change which has to take place so that you will be able to cope with the duties and responsibilities of the next stage.
So if the if you're not really fully completely going through this crisis in the proper way, then you will not be able to develop properly in the in the next stage. Like sometimes people they remain uh as children.
Their bodies grown up.
They may be you know 40, 50 years old, but uh because they didn't really undergo the proper process, under the proper guidance, they didn't go through the proper development, then they inside they remain the child.
Sometimes they're very, you know, they're very sensitive. It's very, yeah, childish, you know, they become, you know, bitter or become very, you know it's it's so many problems are there. Why?
Because the development was not taking place properly, was not going properly.
And in the same way, and you know, of course, as I said, we all want to experience spiritual emotions, you know, ecstasy of Hare Krishna and you you know as it is described in Caitanya-caritāmṛta.
Sometimes we see this picture of spiritual emotions. But you know, uh is the little child can he experience the adult emotions? You know? Can he really laugh? No, he cannot. Because he's too small for this.
And if he is not grown properly internally, even though his body is m may be grown, he will not be able to fall in love properly, he will not be able to enter into relationship, into deep relationship.
And in the same way, if we are not undergoing all these processes properly, we will not be able to enter into deep relationship with Krishna. And we will not be able to experience the emotions in this relationship.
Everyone wants to have this, you know, very amazing emotions, you know, falling in love and you know this and that, completely forgetting himself.
And uh we want to enter into the same sort of relationship with God, but for that we have to grow up.
And uh Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura Prabhupāda, of course, he said that this Sahajiyā mentality is when when you're actually spiritually just a child, but you want to imitate the adults' emotions.
And it's it's a veryy uh it's a joke. It doesn't look nice when somebody is trying to imitate the adult's behavior. He's he's really he's not capable of doing this.
In the same way when we try, you know, oh it's it's it's the same sort of cheap imitation which does not really help us in our spiritual development.
So we have to really be clear what we have to go through, how it goes, how it works, and where we are now and what we have to achieve and uh and uh and go like this. So that's a little introduction to the whole topic.
And What else uh can be said about this, perhaps? Yeah, anyway, let's start with this. So uh the classical Indian texts they say that there are uh four stages of development of a child.
That the age from one to five, from or from zero to five, first five years, it's called Comara stage. Then next from 5 to 10 is Poganda stage. And from 10 to 15 it's Kaishora stage.
And from Kaishora onwards it's Jovana and then some other. And sometimes they also say that before that there is this shishu stage.
Shishu stage when you are just a little baby. It's when you have this first teeth. Uh milk how are they called? Milk teeth. Milk teeth.
So uh so uh I would like to suggest that we call uh uh Śraddhā as a spiritual babyhood, Shishu, and then Sadhu Sangha as the spiritual childhood Kumara, and then Bhajanakriya as the
spiritual paugaṇḍa stage, and then Anarthanivṛtti as a Kaisora stage. And from Nishta onwards you are, you know, we know Krishna, he reaches this gauvara stage and he never changes after that.
So from this onwards there is only more full development of the youth, spiritual youth. Spiritually we never become old. Vṛddha doesn't mean the spiritual old age. Prema means the full blooming youth.
So we're reaching youth, and then you know we're blooming more and more and more. So, but let us reach youth first, so that we will be able to experience emotions.
And uh in reality the real spiritual emotions before that it's only a shadow of spiritual emotions. But on the stage of niṣṭhā, we will be able to experience something.
But uh I'm more concerned now with you and I think it's more relevant for us because we are not really so much grown up even though we may be very leaders and sannyāsīs and gurus but spiritually we are still little babies.
So So and let's have our kindergarten talk
Stages from faith to fixed focus
about this First I wanted to give the review of this whole spiritual process and, I think it will be important and interesting to see.
When the small baby is born uh then uh just I wanted to there's some something I wanted to say, something important about this. Yeah, okay. So when the small baby is born, uh And in our metaphor, it's Shraddha.
The most important element which is going on between him and mother is this trust. And therefore, the very word Shraddha means trust.
Shraddhashabda Vishvasokahi, Sudri Dhanishai. Vishwas. Shraddha means Vishwas. So, the essence of this first stage of spiritual development is developing of this trust between
the spiritual child baby or us and guru or sadhu or whoever is the representative of Krishna, some sadhu. So the trust is most important. Next, sādhu-saṅga. What is sādhu-saṅga? When the child grows little more.
First it's it's a very. I mean it's a very emotional state when there's only trust and nothing more. And you know the complete shelter från the mother is there.
But the next stage the baby is trying to understand what mother talks, right? That's the natural stage of development. And he tries to speak himself. So the stage of sādhu-saṅga is exactly this.
The sādhu-saṅga, when initial trust is established, during sādhu saṅga stage, you're trying to really first you have just completely irrational trust. You just trust somebody.
You don't know what he's talking about, you just know that you like him. And he gives you shelter. You feel some sort of kindness and good vibrations from this person. So you trust completely emotionally.
Then the next stage is sādhu-saṅga, and what is the meaning of sādhu-saṅga? It's exactly like a small child who is trying to understand what the mother is talking about.
He is learning to understand her and he is learning to speak himself.
And we know, you know, usually uh when people uh you know they develop some little uh faith uh and then they you know and they immediately they start preaching. You know what they preach it's exactly like a small baby trying to say something but in reality what what is going on? They're trying to learn the language.
Yeah, and you know, I heard so many. you know lectures which are given from this platform, you know. We are not this body, we're not this body.
Yeah, I know we're not this body, but you know, but you know when you're a little child you know you have to repeat so many things without understanding what it is.
And you know, somebody says you're not this body and you clearly understand that he doesn't understand what it means. But but it's it's natural.
It's it's you know you have to repeat something which you don't necessarily understand. You just repeat it because you heard it from your mother. You know, you just repeat it mechanically.
So that's that's sādhu-saṅga stage. Next stage is very interesting because when the child you know till five years old when he reaches his Poganda stage, then he becomes very energetic.
He has a lot of energy and he wants to do something on his own. So this isтовая stage of bhajana-kriyā. Bhajana-kriyā means our attempt to serve God, to do something.
As much as uh in the first stages śraddhā and sādhu-saṅga, uh the association with uh seniors with those who are more mature uh is very important.
Uh, on this stage, the associations with our peers, with equals, becomes very important.
Because when the child reaches this age, five years old till you know, 10 years old, for him it's very important to to deal with equals. He will not develop only with with the uh with the parents.
Initially parents are most important driving force for his development. And to establish proper relationship with seniors is most important on these first stages.
How to properly deal with them, how to develop trust and how to, you know, how to respect them, so on so forth.
But uh from uh in in the Paganda stage of our development and uh in the bhajana-kriyā stage of our spiritual development it's very important to start widening the scope of our association and deal with equals.
To do something together. That's the essence of bhajana-kriyā. So first we learn to trust, then we learn to speak, then we learn to do something. That's bhajana-kriyā. The next stage is anartha-nivṛtti.
Anartha-nivṛtti is when we, you know, when the little child first he speaks, then he does something. And when he becomes teenager, when he reaches this, you know, 10 years old and then he starts singing.
Before he didn't think really. You know, the thinking capacity starts developing in this kaishora stage.
When one becomes teenagers, some independent thinking, you know, and uh uh usually uh at this point uh you know teenagers they think they're the most intelligent and so on so forth. Whereas they're still stupid, but but
they they're completely convinced that they're the most intelligent in the whole of universe, but it's because the brain develops, because this thinking capacity develops.
So what's happening in this Anartanivriti stage is the same sort of process is going on. You first learn how to speak without thinking much. Then you learn you know what to do.
And usually you know the the second stage everyone is very energetic, he's just running here and there, doing something, harinam, this and that. But then he starts thinking, you know.
The the whole you know what he learned before, he starts thinking himself. It becomes his as much as teenagers they question everything which they learned before, it it has to become their own discovery, so to speak.
So anarthanivṛtti is this very painful period of spiritual development when you basically question everything which was there before.
You start doubting uh some dogmas and you reconsider some things, you you you think in a more independent way. And it's very important. If you if you don't do this, you will not progress further.
So, and we know this teenage period of material development, it it's it's difficult. And anarthanivṛtti is equally difficult, It's a very difficult period of spiritual development.
And then when we reach the stage of niṣṭhā, then we start the feeling comes. That's the next development. You know, first you learn how to speak, then how to act.
And then you continue speaking and acting, but then you start thinking, but then the feeling comes, the more elevated, not just these primitive emotions. Of course, you know, child has some emotions.
He but this is not emotions in the proper sense of the word. It's a very primitive sort of emotions. But the elevated emotions, the real emotions, which are important for our spiritual development, they start onwards.
So that's that's more or less the description of what's what's going on uh in uh in these stages. And uh um uh I guess I will uh I will not speak more.
I could speak more about this, but uh I I want to touch a little bit of this
Meaning and origin of initial faith
first m in more detailed manner, the first stage of our spiritual development. What is Shraddha? The very word Shraddha comes from two Sanskrit words, śraddhāt or śraddhāt. And dhā. Dhā means to place.
And śraddhāt or śraddhā means heart. Śraddhā means literally means where you place your heart. It's the placement of your heart. And Kṛṣṇa himself says, śraddhāmayo 'yaṁ puruṣaḥ that the puruṣa is full of śraddhā and
this śraddhā is not necessarily spiritual śraddhā. Everyone is full of śraddhā.
He speaks this verse in the 17th chapter of the Bhagavad-gītā where he explains material kinds of śraddhā, faith in the modes of material nature. And tamas, people in tamas, they believe in something.
These atheists, they say we don't believe in anything. They believe that they don't believe in anything. That's their belief. That's their belief system. It's a very tāmasika belief system. But it's a belief system.
It's a religion, nevertheless. Whether they understand this or not, they may be dull enough not to understand it, but it's still a belief system. So everyone, everyone has śraddhā.
And śraddhā, as I said, it's a sentimental thing. Because you're placing your heart. But and uh of course Krishna says if you if you believe uh and it's very interesting.
In the 17th chapter, he explains that what you believe in, You more or less believe in what is in your mind.
This śraddhā in the modes of material nature is that when you believe in something which is there in your in your mental creation and it's not really bringing you anywhere.
It's not really changing your karma, so to speak. You remain yourself, you know, you so many people, they develop certain beliefs according to their conditioning. Their conditioned nature is as such, you
certain percentage of tamas, certain percentage of rajas, and and accordingly they have some belief system.
According to the constitution of their mind, and uh it doesn't change anything. So, what happens when we speak about śraddhā, when Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī speaks that Shraddha is the first stage of spiritual development, is that when we meet a sadhu and in a traditional uh setting uh uh
it's you know somebody goes to a holy place to some Tirtha. And he meets a sadhu. Basically the whole design of Vedic culture is that people are inspired to go to holy places to Kumbamelaya. What is Kumbamela?
Kumbamela is that you you go there just for some, you know, for some material benefit. Because some nectar is there and you, you know, and you take bus and this.
But in the meantime, the sadhus are also there. You know, like this kumbh mela, millions of people are there, and all the sadhus are coming there. So in reality, the design is like this.
You buy hook or by crook, as Prabhupada used to say, by all means you inspire somebody, people to go to holy place for some material need, but then they may see or sometimes hear a nice saintly person and they become attracted.
Because you know it's it's natural when somebody is really saintly, you become attracted to him. You know you see somebody who is happy.
Basically, what you're attracted to, you're attracted to the happiness. You see a person who is completely, totally, irrevocably happy is not going to be you know morose or disturbed by all these things.
And you naturally mm want to become like him.
So if this is happening, if you somehow or other by some strike of good fortune you place your faith or your heart into this person, you really develop some little tiny initial trust in this person.
You see somebody who has integrity, who has, you know, who is pure, and who is completely selfless. It's a very important thing, you know, sadhu has to be selfless.
Unfortunately, of course, nowadays we can see that there are so many sadhus who are not so selfless. They put the garb of the sadhu, they they speak nice words, but internally they're not so selfless.
But ideally, you know, if by your good fortune you place your heart or your trust into a real person. Then your spiritual development starts. Then really your new life starts. Why?
Because by associating with this person, you completely change the composition of your mind of your subtle body. You're not in the same, you know, you're not really doing the same old stuff which you have been doing.
Your śraddhā is in somebody else who is way above you. So, and as I said, this initial śraddhā, it's very sentimental. It's not rational. And of course, if you have some sukṛti, some bhakti-mukhi sukṛti, some real credit,
pious credit, but in a spiritual sense, then according to this, you will develop faith in a proper person. And we can see, you know, people they they put their place, they put their heart in different persons.
According again, according to what? According to the constitution of their heart and the level of their sukṛti. And Krishna arranges this.
We have to really very clearly understand that it's Krishna who arranges this meeting and this initial kind of response. Yes, I want to become like him. I want to follow him.
I want to, you know, I some sort of attraction is there. It it may be uh it's completely irrational. You don't understand anything, but some uh some respect is there. Therefore, this śraddhā is used.
Śraddhā, as we all know, means respect. You know, you develop some sort of respectful attitude towards a saintly person.
And from this, your spiritual development starts, and as Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura says, you're still completely engrossed in your body and in your mind. You're not. Nothing spiritual is there.
But still, something very important happened.
Importance of receiving authentic scriptural guidance
And as Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, this bhakti-latā-bīja starts the planting of bhakti-latā-bīja starts within your heart.
Sometimes people say that bhakti-latā-bīja, śraddhā means bhakti-latā- bīja is planted in your heart. It's not. The planting of bhakti-latā-bīja, the seed of bhakti-latā, of real bhakti, it's a process which takes years.
Because for the seed to be planted in your heart, your heart has to be cultivated, the soil of your heart has to be proper, otherwise the seed will not really grow there.
So, this process actually, from śraddhā to niṣṭhā, is the process of planting the seed of bhakti. But what is most important, the seed should be proper. It should be the seed of bhakti. When we meet a person, a preacher.
And uh uh you know who is this preacher?
He has to be a sādhu. And sometimes people say sādhur eva samantavya, Krishna says, api cet sudurācāro bhajate mām ananya-bhāk, even if he commits all kinds of horrible activities, he still is a sādhu. He has to be considered a sādhu.
Is this sādhu meant? No. Śrīla Jīva Gosvāmī says no, no, no, no, no. It has to be a real sādhu. It doesn't have to be this api cet sudurācāro sādhu. It has to be a sādhu who can give you śāstric śraddhā.
What I mean to say is that from the very beginning, the preacher or the sadhu with whom you have to attract some initial attraction has to give you proper seed, the proper knowledge. You may not understand anything, but he has to give you proper knowledge or some, you know, at least some proper things.
Otherwise, it will be genetically modified bhakti-latā-bīja. And it's not a fact that this from this genetic remodified bīja the plant will go to Vaikuṇṭha. Not in fact most probably it will not grow that far.
So what I mean to say is that sādhu has to speak according to Vedas. Sādhu has to speak according to śāstras. Has to speak according to scriptures. Not what is there in his head.
Otherwise, he may plant so many other seeds in your heart and you don't need all these seeds. You already have these seeds.
The seeds of karma and jñāna are already there. You know, we need the bīja of bhakti. And bhakti basically means the scriptures, the real scriptural conclusions, śāstric śraddhā. Even though you may not understand anything, and you don't understand anything, but still it has to be real, as much as the milk which mother gives to the child has to be real.
You know, if the mother doesn't have real milk and still wants to feed the child with this, you know, this powder milk or with all these, you know, artificial things.
That the child may grow, but he will not grow properly and he will be weak and he will be. he will have all kinds of diseases.
In the same way, if even in the initial stages, what I mean to say is that you know sometimes we overemphasize this preaching aspect of our movement.
It's good that we preach, but we also have to understand the grave responsibility, especially of preaching to the new people.
Because when overly enthusiastic spiritual baby starts bubbling something and calls it preaching, You know God knows what's what's going to happen. The whole spiritual life or career may not be very successful after that.
So we have to understand the grave responsibility.
What I want to say is that from the very beginning, the preacher who is planting the seed of trust or faith in somebody else has to do it strictly according to the scriptures.
Not according to his imagination, not according to his speculation, not according to anything else. He has to know scriptures himself. He has to behave properly himself.
And therefore, again, as I said, there is a very high demand.
And therefore, Jiva Goswami in Bhakti Sandarbha he says that there are gurus who are not so selfless, and he said you should avoid such gurus, you should avoid such preachers who are not selfless.
You should find somebody who is selfless as much as the mother is completely selfless when she is feeding the baby. She doesn't expect anything from the baby, she just wants to feed him with this milk.
And she has a lot of milk. She wants to give the milk all of course, the real milk. So if this is there, then uh uh then the development will be proper.
Overcoming the first crisis of trust
Still uh I I probably have to finish now, but just a few words I I I will say to conclude this. What I want to say at the end is there is a crisis.
As I said, in every stage of spiritual development, as much as in every stage of our material development, there is some crisis.
And the nature of the crisis which little baby has uh may have with the mother is that when the trust somehow or other is not being developed.
So uh when we take the spiritual development, what kind of first crisis we undergo, uh uh because we don't have discrimination in the beginning. What's usually happening when we meet with the sadhu?
We usually uh the tendency is there. We try to idealize him. We try to elevate him to a completely, you know, he's just he's he's there.
It's very common uh if you take any spiritual organization uh the people who come they need to have completely inflated understanding about the you know the spiritual figure which is there.
Ideally, if he creates miracles left and right, that's the best. Because that's the nature of this phase.
They don't have the phase is very sentimental and they usually have this idealized inflated understanding and they they practically literally as much as the little child the psychologists they say that for little child his mother is God.
He's the little child completely, because he's totally dependent on mother, that you know she's all powerful for him. So, in the same way, when the little when the spiritual seeker comes
to a guru, or to a sadhu, or to a spiritual organization, he has to have this understanding. develops this understanding that this guru, he is God. He's practically, practically God.
And he has to feed this sometimes very unrealistic phase by all kinds of by all kinds of nonsense. You know, that I know ISKCON culture very well, you know, the people start saying, Oh my guru, he's such a miracle man.
He comes to my dream every other night and he gives me secret mantras and this and that. And sometimes you know people first they make this unrealistic picture of a sad-guru.
And then sometimes when when they see uh they cannot really understand that uh the sadhu is a is a human being. And when they see some human side of them, they completely sometimes they completely lose their trust.
And both is not correct. This first crisis which you have to undergo is to understand what Sadhu is giving to you. He's not supposed to be the miracle man, you know.
Śrīla Prabhupāda, so many times he was asked, please show us some miracles. Who asked him to show the miracles? Those people who wanted to have faith in him. But Śrīla Prabhupāda never went for it. He said, no, no, no, no.
You know, once in Bombay, somebody asked, Swamiji, can you show us miracles? And he was a businessman. He said, I went to America, Śrīla Prabhupāda said, I went to America with 20 rupees.
And a few years after I returned to India with millions of followers and millions of rupees. Is this my miracle? Isn't it a miracle? Yeah, this is a miracle. Sure it is a miracle. No doubt about it.
So but Prabhupada he was not uh you know he he was not really sometimes you know when when you see this in a in a very you know neophyte devotee this desire you know starts to to you know to attribute to you some miraculous uh qualities, you know, you go for it. Prabhupada never went for it. He never went for it.
There was a very interesting story in the life of Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura Prabhupada. Very nice young person was attracted to him. And he wanted to become his disciple.
He became his follower, and he was listening to him, and he was, you know, becoming more and more enthusiastic.
And then what he saw: he saw that Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura Prabhupāda is checking uh the books, the you know, the all this expenses and all this kind of stuff, you know, and he became completely disappointed.
And he said, no, no, he's not a real sādhu. So this is this is this first crisis, the crisis of trust.
When one has unrealistic understanding of who the guru is, who the sadhu is, who what he is supposed to do, what he's supposed to do to you and uh uh you know who he is.
And if he doesn't uh uh undergo this crisis properly, then most probably he will go away, or he may still remain in the society of devotees, but he will not develop properly. That's what I said.
If you undergo the crisis properly, then you are more then you become more integrated. Integrated inside and outside.
Means you have more healthy working relationship with others and you are more integrated internally yourself.
If you don't undergo the development of crisis properly, then you remain undeveloped, so to speak, and you're not really prepared to do what you're supposed to do next. So that's a little introduction to the whole topic.
This first initial stage of our development who the sadhu should be how he should behave towards the spiritual would be spiritual child and how the child or the neophyte devotee has what he has to understand, what he has to take. And you know the whole little introduction to this.
Distinguishing scriptural faith from social faith
Then we may cover some other stages like sādhu-saṅga and, but what I also want and maybe I will speak a little more about this in the next uh discussion which we will have.
The difference between śāstrīya-śraddhā and laukika-śraddhā. Because this śraddhā can be of two types, and Śrīla Jīva Gosvāmī and Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura, both they say that śraddhā can be laukika.
Laukika basically means conventional śraddhā, socially
defined śraddhā, and śāstrīya-śraddhā, and what I see in this ISKCON is that Prabhupāda was very śāstric and he was giving the milk of the Vedas from the very beginning. He was only speaking śāstra.
He was not trying to cheat us in any case.
But what I can see inemporal development of ISKCON, and uh you spoke about the future of ISKCON, the future of ISKCON is being made now depending on some very crucial uh decisions which we will make, uh it will define the future.
Uh, I don't think the future is defined now, but it may be defined according to certain decisions.
So what I can see, there is a lot of laukika-śraddhā and mechanisms to establish laukika-śraddhā in this country instead of trying to implant real śāstrīya-śraddhā. So I may speak a little bit more about this:
what is śāstrīya-śraddhā, what is laukika-śraddhā, how to distinguish? What śraddhā do I have? You know, what kind of... because you know, to have śraddhā in something uh it's nothing special. Everyone has śraddhā.
And so many people believe in God, and so many people believe in Kṛṣṇa. It doesn't mean much. Who is Kṛṣṇa? How to come to him? What is the path which goes to him?
How properly to practice this to come to Kṛṣṇa in Vṛndāvana, which is our real goal. These are not so simple questions. Anyway, so there are different Kṛṣṇas. And uh, it doesn't mean that we all believe in the same Kṛṣṇa.
They may be called Kṛṣṇa, but different Kṛṣṇa. So what is our śraddhā? Into which Kṛṣṇa do we believe, and uh, what do we do to develop this? Let's talk a little bit about this more.
Questions on maturity and systematic education
Okay? Questions? Yes, since we can It's like start all over again. It's never too late. Or rather not too fit to start again. But qualified alone. So I I think the yeah. No please.
Uh the time taken for childhood to youthhood is it same for everyone? Well no, it's not same to everyone.
As I said, uh even even in our material development, even though it says you know five, you know, from zero to 5 from, 5 to 10, from 10 to 15.
It works only if everything is proper, only if all the conditions are in place.
Like I said, in the beginning, if you have proper adults, seniors who are really taking care of you and who give you unconditional love, then you develop, then your childhood is successfully you know gone.
And then Poganda you have to have a lot of equals with whom you work and with whom you play and with whom you develop. It's also very important. You still have very loving parents, but you have your friends.
And also depending on on you know your friends, who are your friends, how developed they are, you know, this is crucial for your development in this stage.
Then the next stage from 10 to 15, it's very important for you to have a relationship with those who are junior to you.
I didn't mention this, but I remember now uh because uh for teenagers it's very important to start taking care of uh you know their younger siblings or you know those who are younger than them.
Because in this way they're taking responsibility. And by taking responsibility they develop themselves. Without taking responsibility for the lives of others, it's very difficult to develop.
You know, this therefore in traditional families, all the, you know, those who are more senior, you know, then they take care of their junior brothers and sisters, they they start doing this.
So in the same way, this is important.
And Nārada Muni himself says that uh you only develop if you have properly esta if you are properly established in all the relationship. Relationship with the seniors, relationship with the peers, and relationship with the juniors if uh this is there. So if all the conditions are in place then it will take you know this.
But if they're not uh you may develop you may delay in your development. You may not develop so smoothly, so to speak. There's a problem. There's a lot of delayed mode happening here. We'll have to personally sit with you.
This may not be the phone. I think you need to be around a lot of places more often if really this process has to be put into motion to correct the very future. It has a direct bearing.
So one of the things that came out in the SDDS, which ties into what you said, and obviously, you know, we look forward to your expanding that further. Is we talk about the notion of more devotees,
and we talk about happier devotees, but now there's another notion which is more most critical, is mature devotees.
So I think there's happiness when you're a child also and there can be happiness when you're in an adult body and still in a child consciousness but there's no maturity.
You don't call that person a matured person who is an adult who acts like a child. So you know. Yeah, we sometimes say more devotees, happy devotees, and if devotees become unhappy, just go away.
We only need happy devotees. Great. There's another one. Maharaj, we decide not to come. That's the fear.
Maharaj, in every stage leading up to niṣṭhā, does the practitioner, is he aware that he's in that stage or is it his mind telling him? No, no, you have to, otherwise as I said, it's a science. It's a science.
And science means you have to know, you have to understand what's going on, you know, and why it is going on and uh otherwise you will not be able to overcome all these problems. You will be stuck.
You know, you yourself should know to a certain extent, or at least those who are in a position of counselors, gurus or whatever, they definitely should know what's going on and how to how to help people to develop properly.
Is it possible for somebody to have niṣṭhā, to experience a little Nishta before it actually goes all over on the other side?
Is it like a gradual process or would you be it would it be like a like you come to one level and then only you move to the next? Um yeah
usually you sh uh you come to certain level and it basically means of course it's not you know it it's always little simplified. But usually it's like this. You come.
You you may understand on you you may have some precursors of some future developments.
But usually, as Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura says, you know, when when you go from stage to stage, Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura explains it very clearly.
He says when you go from stage to stage, you first have to be firmly established on this stage, and then you put one of your foot on the higher stage, and then you gradually bring another foot, and then you establish there and then again.
So uh and uh uh to be established in the stage basically means that you know the rules uh and uh of the stage and you follow the rules of the stage. Uh it's not that our sadhana is always the same stale, you know.
You gradually, gradually increase your sadhana and the intensity of your sadhana, or at least the quality of your sadhana, what you do.
But for that, you need to first to be established on the stage and then go a little further and little further. If you try to, you know, to jump over in a stage,
not being established on this stage, you may just injure yourself. That's what uh often uh happens.
Sometimes people they are in a hurry, they want to come quickly, but they forget some things and they sometimes injure themselves and then they go back.
In their spiritual development, that's also so that lesson that you're supposed to learn if it keeps happening often enough, that means you haven't learned the lesson. Yes. And then when you actually learn the lesson Yes.
Then you do not make that mistake again. You are more mature to Yeah. Yeah, like I as I said, the lessons uh is what I call crisis, the spiritual crisis.
So the first lesson is as Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura Prabhupāda says, or Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura says, you know, Guru, who is who is the real guru? The Putana is the first problem, first obstacle on your spiritual path.
You know, the false Guru and the real Guru, who is real guru. And if you don't learn if you don't understand actually who is guru, you will abandon one guru, you will go to another guru, you
will abandon the sādhu, you will you will go to Sai Satya Sai Baba and he will do some miracles to you and you know you will go somewhere else and you know and uh because because you don't learn this lesson.
You know, the guru is someone who gives you the milk of spiritual knowledge, who feeds you with this milk of spiritual knowledge. And if you try to attribute to him some other qualities.
So that's that's the lesson which you have to learn. If you learned it, then you can go further. Then you can go further. And then uh then then you will not go back. It's also very interesting.
Like, you know, if if you reach the certain stage and if you pass this certain stage, you will never go back. You you will you will not go back.
But if you didn't really pass it, then you you know you will be always fluctuating. Yeah. Yeah, re exam. Yeah, re exam. But if you achieve this, then further. And so on so forth.
It's like, uh, he tells a very interesting story also. He he was dealing with some drugs before he became a devotee and then you know his karma came to him.
He became a devotee, but then he was supposed to be put in prison. So he came to Prabhupada and he said to Prabhupada, Prabhupada, uh you know I I I will have to go to prison for my previous uh some little things.
Prabhupada says, why? He said, because I was selling drugs. Prabhupada looked at him and said, I also sell drugs? He was in this pharmacy. He was released very quickly, Syamasundar. This Malati Mataji is Syamasundar.
Malati and Syamasundar. So Maharaja, last time you came and we had a similar session on japa we got shattered because all the japa that you were doing. So I go for japa walks.
I don't understand whether I'm walking or doing japa. But I still continue to do that. So that was one. Now again you've so I think I have a humble submission. Let's start all over again.
And you and you pull everyone through the process of reinitiation. So you you you know you set everyone up. Okay. But as soon as you're saying kindergarten, don't take it so seriously.
But Maharaja says no. Oh, what is uh joking? Oh yeah. As you see what uh we need to change in the future, we have to do something today for there to be a change tomorrow.
What is it that you feel that we really need to learn and imbibe and know and if whatever that is maybe what you gonna tell us, how how can we learn from you? How can you teach us?
That I don't know how you can but you have a plan. No, you can't come here and first tell us all that you told us about japa. And then you start with this journey today.
And then you go away and say, listen, how can I help you? That's being very unfair. So you know what we will do? Maharaj you cannot find out the deficiencies and then uh then then leave us.
No Maharaj, when everyone leaves we need to deal with this. No, I think first as I said we, have to establish our faith firmly on the basis of the scriptures.
We have to understand because as Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura says that the beginning of spiritual life he calls it, the first period of spiritual life, he calls it Krama Shuddha Shravanadasa.
When you hear, but you hear according to him is krama-śuddha, uh not not chaotically, you know, krama-śuddha. You know, you hear it in the proper sequence.
Yeah, in the proper sequence, according to adhikāra, you understand, you get the systematic wholesome knowledge.
Because when you when you only have some you know strange of mixture, its knowledge doesn't change you. It's just chaotic data which is there in your mind.
But when you have a complete systematic understanding and knowledge, then it will become very easy for you to to change, to transform, to go from stage to stage.
So in my opinion, the most important is to have this systematic education.
Like in any educational institution, you cannot just you cannot just come to an educational institution and they'll all all of a sudden without teaching you
arithmetics they they'll start giving you some you know in whatever it is higher mathematics you first have to know arithmetics and then go to algebra and then go like this and then you will be able to understand.
You know, in this con you know today we speak we speak about Varnasrama, tomorrow we speak about rasa-lila and in between we speak about the political situation. This is not krama-saukaryam showing that this is not proper.
And you know, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam has a certain design. Prabhupāda you always trust first Bhagavad-gītā, you learn Bhagavad-gītā, this is the ABC of spiritual knowledge, you know it perfectly well, then you go next stage and then you go to to this.
This is this is in one sense it's simple. He gave us everything. It's just a question of putting it in practice. But we're always, you know, doing it.
So in in m my opinion, it's simple, it's uh it's just a question of uh getting very systematic and you know proper uh knowledge and uh coupled with spiritual practices. Not just theoretical knowledge of course, but you know, together with spiritual practices.
And then it will become very easy and simple and it's it's very exciting also. But when you don't have the systematic things, it it becomes very strange. So that's what I say. Okay, it's late. Thank you very much. Thank you.
Śrīla Prabhupāda ki jaya!