Building Healthy Society
Бхакти Вигьяна Госвами · 2025
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Invocation and initial remarks
Janmādy asya yato 'nvayād itaratas cārtheṣv abhijñaḥ svarāṭ tehne brahma hṛdyaṁ ādi kavaye muhyanti yats sūrayaḥ tejo-vāri-mṛdāṁ yathā vinimayo yatra tri-sargo 'mṛdhā dhāmnā svena sadā nirasta-kuhakaṁ satyaṁ paraṁ dhīmahi adika voyayamhyanti Yat Suraya, Te Jovariim ridam Yathavi ni Mayatrat Pri Sargum Risha, Dhamnas Vina Sadhanih rasta kuakam satyam
satyaṁ paraṁ dhīmahi mūkaṁ karoti vācālaṁ paṅguṁ laṅghayate girim yat-kṛpā tam ahaṁ vande śrī-guruṁ dīna-tāraṇam śrī-caitanya-mahāprabhoḥ nityānanda śrī-advaita
Hare Krishna, I'm very happy to speak in front of all of you. I'm sorry for a little misunderstanding. I was not informed that this is going to be the topic of my presentation.
I assumed that there will be some other topic of my presentation. But I can speak on this topic without maybe extra preparations. I'll try to share my realisations about this.
So I'll chant one mantra from Srimad Bhagavatam, Yandah Pradishi Mamavachima Mamprasuktam Sanji Vayata Kila Shakti Darakswadamna Anjamatva Gadim Prananda Mau Bhagavaty Puru Shayatubi.
Swasya stuvishwalah prasida tam deyan to Bhutani Sivam mit Hodia, Ma nascha Badram Bajata Doksa je, Avi So
let me start uh this little lecture uh with presenting the problem uh which I can see, the challenge which our society is facing now.
We all know that by the will of the Lord and by the inevitable force of time, and the generation of direct Srila Prabhupada's disciples are departing from this planet, going to some other destinations according to their particular desire and achievements.
And very soon we will be without guidance of those people who directly heard from Śrīla Prabhupada, and moreover who felt his heart, who really were trained by him.
I was fortunate enough to have a lot of close association with many direct
Prabhupada's disciples and a few of them trained me and I know how strict Śrīla Prabhupada was in different regards, especially about etiquette, about the cleanliness.
But now what we are having, we have many people who didn't go through āśrama training, who had some theoretical knowledge of some courses, maybe Bhakti Shastri or now Bhakti Vaibhav, Bhakti Vedanta, but did not
have really much personal training and viady gurus they don't have really opportunity to train the disciples personally. And the understanding of philosophy becomes more theoretical.
The mood is changing because the mood of complete total irrevocable surrender, which was very much prevalent among the disciples of Srila Prabhupada, which Srila Prabhupada instilled in their heart very firmly this mood is vanishing.
It's unfortunately fact Okay, uh sorry, somebody just called me.
External success versus internal spiritual transformation
So uh it's uh unfortunately a fact, and in the meantime, ISKCON is uh uh I I would say at least superficially very successful in certain areas of the world, especially in India and in many other countries really gaining popularity, becoming more and more recognized.
And that creates another set of problems because we will become more and more like kind of traditional religion. I was once speaking with one Indian leader who said that Indian leaders they have a formula of success,
and this formula of success in India is called Sri G. Sri G means guest house, Govinda's, and guru. If you have this Sri G, you are doomed to be successful. You are more or less destined for success.
If you have a good guest house and guru is there, and you can always, you know, uh sell your goods behind the back of the guru and if Govinda's is working nicely, then you know it's a success. Is it a success?
That's uh that's a big question in my mind. And uh was it really what Śrīla Prabhupāda wanted us to do? Would he be satisfied with this external criteria of
success without really internal transformation, which is the real success.
Actually, unfortunately, again, due to certain cultural traditions firmly established in this con, we measure our success by some criteria which is not necessarily the best criteria of success.
We usually measure our success by some external things, which is okay.
And Śrīla Prabhupāda was definitely stressing this external kriteria number of books, number of new members, number of life members. That's all all alright. But ultimately, and the most important criteria, which is much more difficult to measure, is how
and the internal transformation is taking place. Whether people who are coming to our society are becoming pure devotees.
Whether people who are coming to our society are becoming their heart or they're just satisfied by coming to Sunday feasts and taking part in our kīrtanas and even Kīrtana Melas
because all these tendencies, very alarming tendencies, are going on that first of all, we're becoming a little superficial in our approach.
Okay, sorry. I'm traveling tomorrow and there are so many arrangements which I have to do. Anyway, so that's the question which we have to ask ourselves if we are honest.
Śrīla Prabhupāda definitely wanted to have a society which transforms all the people who join this ISKCON and which will ultimately be able to transform the whole society.
And if we are not capable of really transforming the hearts of people who are joining if people are more or less remaining in the same place, the same space where they were before by externally changing some few signs like
Original purpose of ISKCON and daily choices
putting on tilak or every now and then wearing dhotī, then definitely it's not what Śrīla Prabhupāda wanted us to do. Śrīla Prabhupāda, his claim, which is formulated very boldly in the first purpose of ISKCON:
For the first time in the history of humanity to give people the understanding of spiritual science and to push them into this spiritual search and help them to transform. So that's the real criteria of success.
How we are transforming our hearts through the practice of Krishna bhakti and how we're helping others to transform their hearts. What unfortunately we can see in our society
is that people are coming to ISKCON and they think uh of course it's uh a very generalized statement. It may not be true in hundred percent cases, it's probably not true.
In many cases, but still, nevertheless, the tendency is there that people think that I joined this ISKCON, and uh it's a good society, beautiful philosophy, nice kīrtanas, very tasty prasāda, good people. And that's it.
I made my choice, and this choice which I made was the only choice which I have to do. The rest will happen automatically.
Again and again and again, Śrīla Prabhupāda, he repeated this world automatically, but we should understand what does it mean. Automatically does not mean mechanically. You know, we misuse this concept of automatic process of Krishna consciousness.
Krishna consciousness is Krishna consciousness. It basically means that while joining ISKCON, we're joining this flow of Krishna bhakti where we still have to face choices every day.
To transform our heart, we have to make proper choices practically every day, every moment. What do I choose? Do o I choose māyā or do I choose Krishna? That's the intensity of spiritual life.
Every time when I take uh beads, every time when I chant Krishna or whatever every time I give lecture. So but the tendency again is to become you know, you know mechanical follower of some sort of religion.
Recently I was speaking with people who are doing BI work
and one uh person from Harvard University, Indian by nationality, he says, You speak about bhakti as a science, but as far as I'm concerned, I can see in our temple people are more or less joining ISKCON as yet another religion.
And that's a big problem, and we have to be very clear about this problem. Do we want to become yet another religion?
Defining a healthy spiritual community
Or we want to transform the society, or we want to create a society which is transforming people.
Because why this topic about creating healthy society or forming the healthy society is so important because this is one of very important mechanisms for people to get transformed.
When devotees enter certain social group, the mood in this group is can help them to transform or it can help them to remain where they are.
It can help them to conform to some external signs and to pretend being devotees. So first thing which I want to state now is that healthy society, healthy community is the community of spiritual seekers.
Is the community where people are forced, I don't know if it's a good word, forced, but at least inspired, inspired not just to follow some mechanical rituals, but people are inspired and enthused by the examples which they see around them to change their lives, to change their hearts, and to achieve the ideal of pure bhakti.
And so, unless we form this society, it's we cannot really claim that we are successful in forming a healthy society. Sometimes people say healthy society is a society which is based on the principles of varṇāśrama.
Sure enough, there is no doubt about it. Varnashuma is a very it's an ideal social system and we have to really think uh deeply how to reproduce some
basic principles of varnashram. I will mention about this a little later in our society. Definitely, we cannot try to use some
medieval recipes to introduce varnashrama. But again, first and foremost condition, we're not just creating varnashrama, Daivi varnashrama.
And Daivi varnashrama basically, it means the society where the pure devotional service is of the highest esteem, where this is the highest ideal and people are inspired by this ideal.
Whether they will be able to follow this ideal or not, that's another question. But everyone is inspired by this ideal of pure bhakti. Completely transcendental ideal.
If it's not there, if there are no examples of this complete surrender and people who are practising pure bhakti and inspiring others to practice pure bhakti. We are just creating yet another mundane religion
which will gradually gradually deteriorate
Personal freedom and responsibility in spiritual life
and uh will become just you know uh money-making machine, not something which Śrīla Prabhupāda wanted. So, and for that, the most important thing
is to ask ourselves and to ask everyone who is uh dependent on us, who is following us, listening to us, whom do we create? Who are these people who are following us? Are they just blind followers?
Are they just people who are, you know, who are programmed to be humble and to follow whatever we want them to follow or this are people who have some dignity and some freedom.
Who feel I'm here because of my own choice, not because this is the religion which I follow, and because everyone is following this religion, and this religion is good. So, this emphasis on being free in ISKCON.
Sometimes we put a lot of emphasis on being humble, of being follower, that's fine.
But while doing all this kind of preaching, emphasizing the following, the obedience, the humility, we may completely forget that there is no bhakti without freedom of choice. There is no bhakti when a person feels that he is not following this because his heart is telling him to follow this.
He may be externally very humble, but I've seen again and again and again so many people who are externally humble and their leaders and everyone loves them, but ultimately they are very unhappy.
If you are humble but unhappy, if you are externally following bhakti, but still there is no happiness in your heart, there is no ecstasy in your heart, we are betraying Śrīla Prabhupāda and his movement.
I'm really sorry uh I'm uh speaking this heavy uh things uh because I didn't prepare this lecture, but uh maybe it's good so so to to make it uh to make it more clear.
So uh and uh for that uh for people to um to remind people that they have to be. That they have to grow. You know, that they have to be very how to say this? That they have to take responsibility for their spiritual life.
That's another thing which I also wanted to say in regard to this topic of healthy society.
First, of course, it's a society or community of spiritual seekers: people who are free, who want to do it, and who are excited to do it, and who are inspired to do it because they see so many examples around them.
People who are really introspective and trying to sincerely change their hearts and their lives.
So but uh the next point which I uh wanted to uh say uh is that sometimes in our attempts to create quote unquote healthy society or happy community?
Balancing devotee care with individual accountability
Like I remember there was once a slogan for ISKCON leadership Sangha, whatever, more devotees, happier devotees.
So in our attempts to have more devotees and happier devotees, we are trying to create all kinds of devotee care systems which is definitely very good. But again there is a danger. What does it mean?
We have to very clearly understand what the devotee care system means.
Do we produce people who are irresponsible who are under the pretext of being care do not take responsibility for their own spiritual life. You know that there is a very fine difference between real care, spiritual care, which actually is the inspiration for people to take responsibility for their spiritual life themselves.
And the system in which people they just transfer responsibility the burden of responsibility from their shoulders on to the shoulders of quote unquote senior devotees or counselors or whatever.
And instead of being purified and growing, we create some people who just you know who are irresponsible and who absolved responsibility from their own.
So the another point here is that the healthy society is the society of people who very clearly understand the responsibility for my success is on my shoulders.
It's not ISKCON who has to ensure my success. It's not my guru who is responsible for my spiritual progress and success. It's me. The onus of responsibility is on me, not on somebody else.
Because this unfortunately, we can see how often people are playing this game of blaming others in their spiritual failure. They after so many years of practice they don't feel tangible success.
And instead of investigating their heart and asking them questions: what is the reason, why it is there, they're trying to find who is responsible for this, who is guilty for my spiritual failure.
And therefore, there are so many detractors, so many people on the web who are always blaming this ISKCON is that, ISKCON is this. Why? Because from the very beginning devotees were not trained.
The responsibility for your spiritual life, it's your responsibility. And you have to take initiative. Whatever it is required.
Yes, ISKCON is there, spiritual masters are there, senior devotees are there, but initiative have to come from you. Initiative has to come from you for your spiritual life.
You have to understand that nobody is responsible for it. And devotee care doesn't mean that you're not responsible for your spiritual life anymore. Your success, spiritual success, is in your hands.
So now after stating these two very important principles, people have to be conscious, they have to be very mature or they have to become mature because again in Kali Yuga so many people are uh they're not grown up really, and they are not really, you know, they are not really mature.
Duty of spiritual leaders to foster maturity
I remember very much, it was very interesting. Gopi Parandana Prabhu, the great disciple of Śrīla Prabhupāda. At one point he was giving a seminar, I think his seminar is still there, about Varnasrama principle.
And he said very beautiful thing which actually struck me at that time, it was many years back, but I still remember it. He was quoting Satapatha Brahmana quite
you know it's well known outside of his Vedic scripture which describes in particular the responsibilities of Brāhmaṇas.
And there are, of course, the standard set of responsibilities: patana patana yajana yajana, that we all know. But besides that, there is a very important responsibility, which
is not only responsibility of Brāhmaṇa, but in case of ISKCON, it's a responsibility of every leader in ISKCON.
It's loka-pakva, if I remember it correctly, it basically means that the responsibility of Brāhmaṇa is to make other people who are maybe less developed spiritually mature to help them grow and not to remain in this infantile childish position.
So that's the responsibility, the duty of a Brāhmaṇa or a leader of ISKCON loka-pakva to make sure that people are becoming grown up.
They're not in this position of a child dependent on this whatever, whoever is there or dependent on a system which is even worse, kinds of dependence. So that's if if the leaders are very clear about this duty.
I have to ask myself again and again and again are people who are under my care and my under my supervision are they growing? Are they becoming mature spiritual personalities with their high aspirations?
If they're not becoming like this, I do not fulfill my duty. So after saying this, let me speak a little bit about the other principles of healthy society.
We all know that Varnashama system is the you know the ideal social organization.
Roles of brahmanas and kshatriyas in society
So next point which I want to say, which would ensure uh and will uh you know will have to uh uh next point which I want to emphasize, uh uh in this regard for creating a healthy society.
We all know that the most important, two most important classes of people in Varnashrama is brāhmaṇas and kṣatriyas. They are the backbone of society.
Without Brahmanas and Kshatrias properly interacting with each other, there is no question of any sane social organization or even any sane organization.
These two forces have to be harmoniously incorporated in any society for society to be successful.
So let me, and sometimes we're dealing with these categories in a very mechanical or outdated or outfashed way you know when we hear brāhmaṇa vi we have image of some very kompletje impractical person who is just studying shastras or whatever and, when we hear about khatra, we have an image of heavy duty manager.
So let's try to understand uh what uh what what is the formula of success when these two forces social forces are uh working in cooperation with each other so what is the difference in the roles?
And sometimes we very, you know how to say very loosely use these terms. Brahman is whoever has Brahminical initiation or whatever, and Ksatya, whatever. Let's not talk about this. Let's talk about the real business.
So the Brahmana and Kshatriya they have very important role. Brahmana, they have to have the complete picture in front of them. They have to see they're the leaders of the society.
They have to make sure that the basic values of the spiritual society are intact. They are protectors of the values, spiritual values.
Of course, they practice the spiritual values themselves, like humility, and mercy, and purity, and austerity, and cleanliness.
But most important they see the whole picture they have the ability to see uh picture uh without getting into details.
The role of a kshatriya is to get things done, and for that they inevitably will lose the complete picture. They will go into details and they are practical people, they have to get practical results.
But in trying to achieve practical results build a temple, make some Govinda's work or whatever trying to form the proper structural managerial structure, they will not necessarily see the complete picture and see the direction where the society is going.
So, Śrīla Prabhupāda used to say that there is lame man and there is blind man. So both should be there, lame and blind people, lame and lame and blind people together they ensure the success of the society.
So brāhmaṇas they have to have vision. They have to keep very clearly the vision of the ideal perfect society with proper values intact, practice it and always remind people under they care about these important values.
But managers, kṣatriyas, administrators have to do things. Without this, there is no success. And Prabhupāda, of course, he stressed both things.
He stressed the practical side of our society for practical success to achieve certain numbers, certain you know criteria of success as we spoke in in the beginning.
But without the power, without the vision of Brahmanas, we will have very empty society.
Importance of mutual respect between societal roles
Externally successful by so many different criteria or whatever, but ultimately empty without giving real satisfaction to the hearts of devotees for participating in this society.
And the most important thing is the relationship between these two classes of society or between these two forces in the society.
We can see in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam the wonderful scene when Manu Mahārāja is coming to Kardama Muni and Manu Mahārāja is praising Kardama Muni and saying, my dear sage, because you are there, I am successful.
And then Kardama Muni is praising Manu and saying, You are so such a great kṣatriya and you are so pure and so uh pious in in your activities. So this mutual respect is very important and it's
very important for us to understand how kṣatriyas can respect brāhmaṇas.
What we see in reality, kṣatriyas they usually, or people let's not call them kṣatriyas, people with these strong managerial abilities and strong managerial temperament, they usually look at brāhmaṇas, look down at brāhmaṇas, they're useless people, they are not really you know practical, they're just speaking some theoretical knowledge. And okay, it's good let them sit for 45 minutes on Vyasasana and uh speak their philosophy. But you know there is a big announcement on the Vyasasana.
The lecture has to end at such and such time because the temple life has to go on. And the management has to has to work. And if your lecture, your stupid lecture goes one minute later.
I I remember I was in such situations. There was one heavy manager who was, you know, if you are one minute later in your lectures, you're not welcome anymore in this temple.
So this sort of relationship is actually, the formula for failure. If people with managerial abilities do not understand that they are totally dependent on people with more broader vision.
The people who are really can be guardians of important spiritual values and can be embodiment of important spiritual values.
If this relationship is not established, then society will ultimately be completely useless, externally successful, but useless.
Historical reasons for respecting brahminical authority
So now the most important question: how to establish this relationship between these two classes or between these two categories of people in our society, how it should be established properly.
So the reason why brāhmaṇas were so respected in Vedic society. There were three reasons why brāhmaṇas were so respected in Vedic society. First of all, they of course were very practical people.
But the most important thing is why they were, why other people like kings, powerful kings with all their powers and everything else. Why did they respect them? Because they were trained by brāhmaṇas.
Because brāhmaṇas were their teachers. And the respect for this brāhmaṇical culture, brāhmaṇical qualities, qualities of real brāhmaṇas was actually instilled in their hearts from the very beginning.
We know this was a very strict rule in the Vedic society: that no matter who you are, you may be a very powerful kṣatriya, but you have to go to gurukula. And you have to sit there with other people. And from this early childhood, when you are trained
by brāhmaṇa, the fear of brāhmaṇa—good fear, not bad fear, not the fear because brāhmaṇas are more powerful. But understanding that there is a need for brāhmaṇical wisdom was instilled.
So it's very important when we train leaders that they may not be young gurukula boys, but still they have to from the very beginning to understand cool boys, but still they have to from the very beginning to understand that to fulfill my role as a leader or as a manager in any capacity, I have to have shelter of somebody who is more wise than myself.
And wisdom basically means the capacity to see the complete picture. Wisdom means the ability to have this complete vision, this understanding of the relationship between different parts of the picture.
Whereas again, by the very nature and by the mode of passion, those who are doing their administrative duty they are more or less focused on certain things to achieve certain results and they're losing this big picture.
So ideally in our society this
So ideally in our society this brahminical force has to be dominant and it has to be dominant because even Dronacharya was respected by princes, because Dronacharya was their teacher, and because he was an even better warrior than them.
Because he was teaching them this, he was expert in this. And Śrīla Prabhupāda, that was his idea again and again.
He repeated this: that he wanted to create this Brahminical class of people who are very knowledgeable and at the same time very wise.
That was one of the reasons uh that nah those people who are working as administrators it's a very important function in the society. They were trained from the very beginning by brāhmaṇas.
Another reason why Brahmanas were universally respected is that they were detached.
And you know, we know that people who are who want to have some power and they usually attach to some power and money and everything else. But if they see that somebody is detached then they can accept his authority.
They don't They will not see him as a competitor, as a rival to his position, but it will be easier for such a person to accept brāhmaṇical advice when the genuine detachment is there instilled.
And the third reason, of course, was that brāhmaṇas they were very powerful because of their purity and they could curse you. And if Brahmanas were not pleased with you, then Kshatrias were afraid of this.
Why I'm talking about this because we have to see how to implement it practically.
I'm explaining the ideal picture of this, but you know, obviously we don't have the ideal situation in our society, whatever is there is there, but we really have to understand that these two forces have to work in cooperation with each other.
And it's only possible if those who are doing you know managerial work and administration are dependent, internally dependent, sincerely dependent on those people who are wise, who are detached, more detached than they are, and who are ready to help them and giving shelter to them by giving them spiritual advice and guarding and maintaining the spiritual atmosphere in the whole society.
So that's as far as the you know principles.
There are so many other principles in Varnaśrama system. But again it's not about creating some ideal replica of medieval Varnasrama system with all detailed rules, it's not going to work.
But understanding these core principles and trying to implement them as much as possible in our far from ideal situation of advanced Kali Yuga where everyone is really completely brainwashed by all this social media and everything else.
Summary of core principles for healthy communities
So just to repeat, I'm speaking for one hour, I was not planning to speak more than this. I basically spoke about four things.
One is that we should ask ourselves again and again and again: are we creating society of spiritual seekers?
Society of people who are looking for uh for the highest ideal in their life or we are creating just uh a nice pious society of uh uh of the uh attendees of uh Sunday feasts people who are coming there because this is the religion because this is a nice society.
Second, people who are under our care have to really understand that the responsibility for their life is their responsibility. It's really their responsibility, not anyone else.
Everyone else can help them to achieve in their spiritual journey, but ultimately responsibility is theirs, not somebody else.
And that's why we need Brahminical class and the duty of Brahmanas is to help other people to become mature, infantile people, people who are not mature, who have some problems, to become ultimately more mature in their approach to life and in this way feel fulfilled in their spiritual practice and in their material life and their practical life which they're leading.
And then if we're talking about understanding how the ideal society should work, we have to be very clear that there are two distinct roles: Brahminical role of people who are keeping the complete picture and knowing the complexity of reality and developing wisdom and guarding the spiritual principles in the society by practicing these high spiritual standards and practical people who are achieving success, but at the same time, in a genuine way, dependent on the Brahminical class.
Without this dependence, we are doomed to create some very actually second-class kind of material organizations which may work nicely but ultimately have zero spiritual value.
So these are a few things which I could speak about without being informed properly that this is the topic of my presentation. If they are of some value, I would be happy.
If they're not, well, uh, what can I do? So that's that's uh few things which I could share with you from my experience.
And if I'm not conscious of this, If we are really not conscious and we're only trying to do nice organization with nice structures with everything working, it ultimately
will be something which Śrīla Prabhupāda didn't want us to do. He wanted to have really spiritual organization and it's a very high ideal.
And that's if we are conscientious, we have to really ask ourselves what we are doing.
Are we trying to build some second-class material organization, religious organization, or real spiritual movement with highest ideal of pure bhakti intact and firmly established in the society, and people are striving to achieve this ideal.
So thank you very much. That was just a few words which I had to uh say, and I'm very happy to see Deva Sri Radhika, whom I'm so familiar with, okay. May may we ask questions? Yes.
Addressing structural challenges within spiritual organizations
Do we have some questions? Yes. Few minutes we can ask. Okay. So if anyone has questions please this opportunity now. Yes, uh Ravati Pati Prabhu. Let us see. I cannot promise anything. Yeah, I'll still play an a bit.
Well, thank you very much for a very deep insight into that uh healthy community building. I also read your article about on a very similar topic of are we getting the UT and the whole discussion on that.
Uh, one of the questions I have is that, you know, Śrīla Prabhupāda already put a structure in place. Like we have the top body G V C body which is like of course they
say it's the ultimate managing authority but it's ultimately the guiding authority also.
And then special masters of their uh till now also many of them have basic personal training from Srila Prabhupada and they've been in a movement for many, many years.
So what happens that actually the entire organization is ideally driven by them. Whatever they emphasize, whatever they recognize, that's what will be, you know, getting down the line.
So at our level, like you know, say at my level all of us are there, we are more or less in a more of a managerial position rather than in a very you know spiritually influential position to the committee members.
But yeah at an individual level I perfectly agree with what you told that how we should do at our level. But I'm just saying at an organizational level, at a society level, how do we really see the situation
when we do have you know people in place and a structure in place, but if that is not taking into account what is happening today, then uh like how do we do it individually is fine, but the influence with them, the talk most people, the digital masters, the leaders, you know.
Srila Prabhupada established a structure. There's no doubt about it. But our duty is to always ask ourselves: is this
structure fulfilled the purpose for which it was established? Because structure in itself has the tendency to become material, and by this process of materialization of the structure, it loses its original purpose.
So, and uh this process of uh examining what is going on on every level, uh it has to be done on every level. On the level of GBC, the GBC members have to ask themselves:
are we doing our duties as Prabhupāda wanted, or are we just doing something because it's just, you know, because uh there is so much pressure and we have to respond to this pressure.
Are we doing this in a proper mood with a proper understanding of what is the goal and what Śrīla Prabhupāda wanted us to do. But the same is true on every other level.
Because if we are just doing it mechanically according to the culture, and culture is not necessarily right.
You know, the culture Śrīla Prabhupāda established certain structure and then you know there is a way of doing things.
The GBC has their way of doing things and they're kind of familiar with doing things they're doing, which is not necessarily always right. The temple president has their ways of doing this. This is the culture.
But the culture has to be re-examined again and again and again. Are we doing it properly? Is it and for that you need this brāhmaṇical vision or brāhmaṇical wisdom.
You need people who are not directly involved into the management of society, but who are just observing the development of society and saying something is wrong here.
You know, externally it may be okay, it looks okay, but something is in essence is wrong.
So you need such people who have a power to say and they have to have authority, enough authority that other people who are doing things would listen to them and they will stop doing this.
So that's exactly what I was saying.
So, on every level, no matter where you are, you have to ask this question and you have to have somebody who can give you maybe because sometimes we may not give the right answer to these questions, but you know you have to have somebody who can give you the correct answer. Who can give you answer which may not be so complimentary and may not be so pleasing, but it will be true answer.
So yes, and we have to also understand and feel the responsibility. Yes, maybe you're right.
It's going from the top, but still, you know, if something may not be exactly right on the top, you know, I still it's not too late to correct it on on my level. And for that I have to ask these questions.
So I don't know if I'm too revolutionary here or what but uh but uh uh I I still think that uh there is a lot to do on every level.
And uh by by saying that you know I'm just doing what uh what the other big people are doing, we are more or less absolving ourselves from responsibility. We are more or less saying that no, I'm not responsible.
Not everyone is responsible, and that was one of the points which I told. We have to feel I'm responsible for the success of Śrīla Prabhupāda's movement. And am I doing everything right to ensure this success?
Or am I just mechanically doing something which I am supposed to do according to some structure without really asking myself question is it a is it a properly tuned structure? This one I don't uh reflect more on it.
Many other you would have questioned I don't want to take their time, but we have a correspond also or has some percent time of the words. Thank you, Ram. Okay. Devish we ready for David? Hi,
Krishna Maharaj. Daṇḍavats. Jishṇu Kṛpa Prabhu, glories to you. Thank you very much for such a profound insight into um how to lead. Um and I have two questions.
Managing personal limitations in providing devotee care
I don't know if I should staple, but it's something which I'm um currently also reflecting on and your lecture came as a very um profound insight uh into something that's been going on in my life and mine in my services for a while.
And um the first question is in relation to um you you mentioned how the first question has two small parts. One is that in my services now,
the importance of devotee care is becoming more and more it's it's it's expanding and I'm realizing how uh service to Śrīla Prabhupāda means service to his devotees also and service to his mission and his the missionary spirit.
And um you very nicely pointed out how we cannot just... So it's a meeting of two responsibilities, their responsibility for themselves, but also our responsibility for them to bring about that transformation.
And I was just reflecting that now if I'm very honest and uh vulnerable here with you due to my service at the international, regional and local level, there are devotees that I engage with and I care for and they are becoming part of different projects uh with me.
I I do also see my limitation where you can see that there is so much transformation for us as leaders but also for the devotees we are interacting with which is due.
But at the same time, we also on a personal level have our limitations of how many individuals we can feel that uh close responsibility for.
Um so in that sense, uh what should be our demeanor then? That's one part of the question. What exactly the question?
What should be our demeanor that when we have our own limitation with how much we can take on, but we also see the need for feeling responsible for a certain kind of transformation for devotees we have with us. Okay.
Well I heard a very nice story about Śrīla Rānāth Mahār
Before you were taking you were talking all the time people, people, people, and now you are talking projects, projects, projects. Did you change your mind? Did you change your emphasis?
And Maraj smiled and said, No, I didn't. Before I was talking people, people, people, and now I'm talking projects, projects, projects, because when people grow they need some projects.
So the emphasis is again uh on people but when people grow uh they become responsible themselves. So answering your questions why I uh why I told this little story by answering your question.
You know, yes, we are definitely limited in how many people we can take care of. But if we uh uh will take care of uh other people by inspiring them.
m if we take care of a few people whom we can really take care of by inspiring them to take more responsibility, including the responsibility for the lives and spiritual lives of other people, then this uh uh uh purpose will be on this goal will be fulfilled.
You know you you you feel your natural limitation uh, you please take limited responsibility for limited number of people, but uh inspire them also to take response more responsibility for other people.
And in this way, you will indirectly also take more responsibility by inspiring other people to take responsibility.
Viewing devotees with compassion and potential
Thank you very much, Maraj. Narj, before I move on to my second question, I had a second part to this question also when dealing with devotees.
Um on this Sunday, uh His Grace Akkiñcana Kṛṣṇa Dāsa Bābājī from Vṛndāvana, he was here and he was giving the lecture and he made such a beautiful point that while others judge, devotees see the scope of improvement.
So while people tend to judge devotees are more compassionate and they think, okay, how can this person improve? So more than judgment, it's about the vision of benefit.
And even while you were giving a lecture, I was dealing with one situation where a devotee has this deep satisfaction, dissatisfaction and sometimes in in management we do come across devotees who have so much to process and difficult situations arise and what we call quote unquote difficult behavior arises.
And of course when we are managing or dealing with devotees we if we have this vision of what is beneficial for them, we might see okay, this is where they can improve. So how should we um deal with this circumstance?
Because um uh l I I also had a conversation with His Grace Jananivāsa Prabhu on Sunday, he was here in Zurich and he said something, he gave me advice in management. Bas Prabhu on Sunday, he was here in Zurich and he said something, he gave me an advice in management. Sometimes you have to have blinders. You don't have to hear everything and know everything.
I was just thinking, how do we balance these two things? That it is true that I cannot know everything and I don't have to deal with everything, but at the same time, have this vision of improvement for a devotee and implement it.
So if you may have any uh thoughts on this subject matter, it's little vague at least. Uh, it's it's not I can try to give vague answer to the vague question.
If you have the faith that somebody whom you're dealing with can improve, you just convey this faith, this conviction that you can be better.
Yes, people sometimes they are behaving in the way they used to behave, and uh they always and and they're caught in this conception that uh I'm like this and I cannot change.
But you, as a leader, you have to have the different conception, the different conviction. Yes, you can be better. And you can you can do better. You can, it's possible.
So just this conviction or this inspiration which is there in your heart can give people some idea how they can change.
So I I guess it's just you know the matter of your heart. When when you have this face that somebody can improve, then you can
Finding guidance amid differing senior opinions
help him to overcome the difficulties he is dealing or she is dealing with. Thank you very much, and
my last the second la uh question is that um because you began um your discourse by mentioning how Śrīla Prabhupāda's disciples are leaving and to really know what Śrīla Prabhupāda desires and uh the vision forward and uh recently I faced a situation where
it was a project with my godfamily, and because my gurumahārāja has physically disappeared, we were all trying to discern what would be the right way to deal with something.
And it's the same about family, and they have all had a close association with gurumahārāja, but we all had such differing views. And at that point, I felt very fearful because as a young devotee who has
um so many anaṅthas and so many things to work on, I I just feel quite uh fearful that at some point I will be uh here left behind and the senior devotees will um pass on on the spiritual journey and then I have to figure out what to do and then there will be these differences of opinion and all of them are correct but at the same time then how do we really understand how to move forward in such circumstances?
Whether our spiritual master is there in person or he is not there in person, sometimes he is there, sometimes he is not.
We have to have somebody uh in ideally we should have somebody whom we trust who can represent our spiritual master. Because, yes, there will be bewildering situations and there will be differences in opinion.
But in ideal situation we should have somebody whom we trust practically on the same level.
I don't know if it's it may not be possible, but uh at least we should try to look for somebody because yes, ultimately, there will be so many different opinions and sometimes completely contradictory opinions.
So whom do we listen? Yes, there is definitely a method you you search in your heart, you go to the deity of Krishna and you ask Krishna, please give me the right answer.
But sometimes we may not hear properly what Krishna tells us from within the hearts. So in this case we should just ask somebody whom we trust more.
It may be you know good spiritual family, but still in this spiritual family or in our bigger spiritual family of this group, there should be somebody whom we trust who will be the ultimate authority in this kind of questions, especially if it's very important questions. Therefore, Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that we should always be under the guidance of somebody who is more advanced than us. We should never be without any guidance.
Or we should be guided, you know, on a very high level of advancement, we will be guided by Krishna himself. But ideally we should always have somebody who is more advanced than us.
Sometimes sometimes the society of uh devotees of the same level, you know, can also uh fulfill this role, but uh ideally there should be somebody who is more advanced and whom we trust.
Measuring internal growth over external metrics
Thank you very much. Yeah, one more question by Ramānanda Prabhu. Am I audible, Mahārāja? Yes.
Yeah, thank you Maharaj, wonderful class. Uh one thing that he told really touched me is uh Prabhupāda, Śrīla Prabhupāda has done so much sacrifice. Uh he has crossed oceans in the Jaladuta, expecting us to become something. You know, pure devotion as a highest principle. Are we really reaching there? That was very touching, Maharaj.
So Maharaj, the question that I have is, most of the time we are driven by what we are measured with. You know, there is always like somebody senior comes to a temple or a center
and uh what we are very eager to tell him or show him is mostly the number of people, number of number of devotees both coming and attending, you know, and uh mostly the how beautifully the DTs are you know uh you know DCs are being taken care of.
There is so much external aspect and the measurement actually is is number of books that are distributed, you know, number of uh festivals that are celebrated. So everybody needs encouragement.
So we receive that encouragement by those teenagers coming in appreciating on those activities. But what you really touched upon is another level of uh measurement.
So what I want to know for you Maharaj is uh what what way we can measure it? Is there even possible to measure uh our own self?
Of course, you know, Paramātmā speaks to us, but how the congregation is going forward, uh, how do we measure the inner growth?
And if this really I'll just end saying that if Śrīla Prabhupāda visit my temple today, you know where I am uh will he be really happy and what exactly will he look into people, you know, when based on what you said.
You're right. We need encouragement and the external criteria are easier to measure. And it's uh it's an easy way to show that this is the success.
But still, there is some way of measuring more internal criteria of success. I would say one of these is uh you know we may have big crowd on our festival during the one day or we may have a big crowd on Sunday.
That's one criteria of success, but how many devotees who are ready to take responsibility is another criteria. There may be 10 million people coming to your Janmashtami program.
But when you know it comes for some doing something which is which requires some sacrifice or responsibility, nobody is there.
But if this number grows of people who are really taking responsibility upon themselves, that's uh that's a good criteria.
And ultimately, you know, the criteria of success is how people are internally happy, how they're satisfied.
And if we're taking the immediate community, the measurement of their satisfaction is how much you know gossip is there? How much internal quarrels is there? This is all also important criteria.
If the level of gossip uh and uh if uh and uh there are so many conflicts it means that you're doing something wrong.
People are not really happy and are not really, you know, trying to achieve their high spiritual goals, but they just're living normal quote-unquote Kali-Yuga life.
So, but I would say that this number of people who are becoming responsible for their spiritual life is the most important criterion in this regard. Thank you, Marat.
And Śrīla Prabhupāda was actually successful because he fulfilled this criteria. He would give this sense of responsibility for Krishna consciousness to his immediate disciples and they would become very responsible.
Anyway, there are so many stories how people would just join and you know and in two weeks they would go to some other country to open a new center of International Society of Krishna Consciousness.
Because of the potency of Prabhupāda's preaching. Thank you, Madame. Do we have time for another question? Yeah, just last one. Last question.
Promoting healthy competition in devotional service
Okay. Okay, it says a name that I don't like Kamalina. I don't think that's the I could try. Yeah, no, it's Karanomaya.
Sorry, I'm driving for um Hare Krishna Maharaj, thank you very much for a uh wonderful and um thought-provoking class.
What I wanted to ask is that um in ISKCON, competition in a way, and I put it in inverted commas, is necessary to encourage and motivate devotees, like for example, in book distribution, you know, the December book marathon, etc.
But how does one balance and facilitate healthy competition within ISKCON? Because sometimes when the competitive spirit is there, ego takes over. So how are you able to balance the two?
How you able to balance what exactly? The healthy competition in Krishna consciousness.
Yeah, so Śrīla Prabhupāda explains that there is Vaikuṇṭha competition. Vaikuṇṭha competition is a competition which is not based on envy.
Vaikuṇṭha competition is that when somebody who is defeated is actually happy because somebody did better than him because he did better than him for for Krishna and he's happy for his success.
Så the unhealthy competition which is very much typical of somebody in rajo-guṇa in the mode of passion, uh i is always based on this desire to show I am better than you.
But we have to really train people that you know the competition is not to show that I'm better than you, but the competition is to make Krishna more happy. The unhealthy competition is when my eye is in the center.
And when we too much praise somebody and say he's the best and this and that. That's one way of evaluating the success of a person.
But if we say that you know we all together did much, and Krishna is in the center, and we are doing it to please Prabhupāda, to please Krishna. That will promote the healthy spirit of competition.
We should not only encourage people to compete individually and to stress their individual success but we also have to encourage our collective success as our group or society together and and to value everyone's uh input.
When we too much praise somebody who wins the competition who is the number one, then it will promote not a very healthy spirit.
But if we try to first of all say that we are all together doing it and we also praise some other people.
I remember in one of the first marathons where I took place, to took part, there were so many people and many people they distributed many books, but there was one small Bhaktien who was crying the whole marathon and she couldn't distribute she only distributed one book.
But the person to whom she distributed this one book, he came to the temple and he became a devotee.
And she was announced as the winner of the marathon because everyone else was distributing so many books but nobody became a devotee.
But she distributed just one, but it was Krishna really appreciated your sincerity and your tears. So we have to also have some other criteria, not just the numbers, but the quality of distribution.
There was one devotee in Moscow who was distributing many books, and he died very young, there was some accident in Vṛndāvana. He was very young and he passed away.
For at least five or seven years regularly, every Sunday, people would come and they were asking, where is such and such person?
I met him on saṅkīrtana, he gave me a book, and you know, the impression which he left is so strong. I want to see him. For years such people would come to say that: you know, where is he?
And I want to see him because he changed my life. So we have to also praise such people and their achievements, not only the numbers. Thank you, Maharaj. Thank you. Thank you so so much. So I guess it's ecology and all of us.
Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you, Guru Maharaj, for taking the time, and we are begging for your association more with Divis Ecology. Okay, thank you so, so much. Thank you, Bhaktisai.
Guru Maharaj ki jaya! Śrīla Prabhupāda ki jaya!