Srimad-Bhagavatam 5.17.4
Бхакти Вигьяна Госвами · Sweden · 2006
Главы
Verse on the descent of the Ganges
Om namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. Om namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. Om namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. Reading Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Canto 5, Chapter 17, The descent of the river Ganges, text number 4.
Tato 'nekasahasra-koṭi- vimānānika-saṅkula-deva- yānair avatīryendu-maṇḍalam āvṛhya brahma-sadāne nipatati.
Tato 'nekasahasra-koṭi-vimānānika-saṅkula-deva- yānair avatīryendu-maṇḍalam āvṛhya brahma-sadāne nipatati. Patati. Tato, after purifying the seven planets of the seven great sages.
Many sahasra, thousands, koṭi, of millions, vimānānika, with contingents of airplanes. Saṅkula, congested. Devayāna, by the spaceways of the demigods. Avatarantī, descending. Indu-maṇḍalam, the moon planet.
Āvṛhya, inundated. Brahma-sadāne, to the abode of Lord Brahmā atop of Sumeru Parvata, nipatati, falls down. Translation:
After purifying the seven planets near Dhruvaloka, the pole star, the Ganges water is carried through the spaceways of the demigods in billions of celestial airplanes.
Then it inundates the moon, Candraloka, and finally reaches Lord Brahmā's abode atop of Mount Meru. We should always remember that the Ganges River comes from the causal ocean beyond the coverings of the universe.
After the water of the causal ocean leaks through the hole created by Lord Vāmanadeva, it flows down to Dhruvaloka, the pole star, and then to the seven planets beneath Dhruvaloka.
Then it is carried to the moon by innumerable celestial airplanes, and then it falls to the top of Mount Meru, which is known as Sumeru Parvata.
In this way the water of Ganges finally reaches the lower planets and the peaks of the Himalayas, and from there it flows through Hardwar and throughout the plains of India, purifying the entire land.
How the Ganges water reaches the various planets from the top of the universe is explained herein. Celestial airplanes carry the water from the planets of the sages to the other planets.
So-called advanced scientists in the modern age are trying to go to the higher planets, but at the same time they are experiencing the power shortage on the earth. If they are actually capable scientists, hmm, if they were actually capable scientists, they could personally go by airplane to the other planets, but this they are unable to do.
Having now given up their moon excursions, they are attempting to go to other planets but without success. Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Tato Aneka Sahastra Koti Vimananyika, Sankula Deva, Yanena Avataranti Indu mandalam avaria Brahma Sadhana Nipatati.
After purifying the seven planets near Druvaloka, the pole star, the Ganges water is carried through the space space of the demigods in billions of celestial airplanes. Then it inundates the moon Chandra Loka and finally reaches Lord Brahma's abode atop of Mount Meru.
Namaḥ oṁ viṣṇu-pādāya kṛṣṇa-preṣṭhāya bhū-tale, śrīmate bhaktivedānta-svāmin iti nāmine. Namaste sārasvate deve gaura-vāṇī-pracāriṇe, nirviśeṣa-śūnyavādi-pāścātya-deśa-tāriṇe. vāñchā-kalpatarubhyaḥ ca kṛpā-sindhubhya eva ca, patitānāṁ pāvanebhyo vaiṣṇavebhyo namo namaḥ.
Jaya Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Prabhu Nityānanda, Śrī Advaita Gadādhara, Śrīvāsādi-gaura-bhakta-vṛnda, Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare, Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma
Descending knowledge versus the ascending method
Rāma Hare Hare. So in this verse of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, something really unbelievable is being described.
How the Ganges water and the thousands, millions of thousands of the airplanes is carried from one planet into another. There is the whole chain of transportation to carry down the waters of Ganges.
But in fact, this is a very significant statement because basically this statement, similar statements in the Vedas, attests for our faith and for our ability to accept transcendental knowledge.
The whole story about descent of River Ganga is about this. The transcendental knowledge should descend. The transcendental knowledge cannot be obtained by the ascending method.
It can only come down from the highest planes to us. And this whole chapter is actually about this.
It's not without a reason that Prabhupada very vehemently attacks scientists here because scientists do exactly the opposite. They're trying to obtain knowledge to get the knowledge through the ascending process.
They are trying to get the knowledge through their own speculations and they're trying to reach the higher planes through this process, which ultimately doesn't work, which ultimately is false and misleading.
And therefore, the whole story is here which shows to us how the knowledge should come down to us.
We know that the story when Bali Mahārāja was performing sacrifice, Vāmanadeva appeared as a very small child, innocent child, and he begged three steps of land.
And soon enough he became huge and he pierced the coverings of the universe and in this way a few drops of the water from the causal ocean.
And again, it's not without a reason that the causal ocean oh Karana da Karana Ocean Karana Udaka is called causal. Because ultimately the science is studying the cause and effect.
The essence of science is to find out the causes. The science is supposed to answer the questions why and how. So it's all about cause and effect.
And this whole world is beyond on this side of the causal ocean where everything is more or less following this process of the cause and effect. This is what scientific knowledge is all about.
But Gaṅgā or the highest type of knowledge is coming from this causal ocean or transcendental knowledge ultimately is coming from the causal ocean to purify the hearts of the living entities.
The purifying effect of Gaṅgā's water is actually a symbol of this transcendental knowledge because, and Śrīla Prabhupāda also explains this, that the purifying effect of Gaṅgā is there, but the similar effect is there for the transcendental knowledge.
Ultimately the transcendental knowledge is supposed to purify us, and the story about descent of Gaṅgā is also the story how to get the transcendental knowledge from the higher worlds which are there to our plane.
So sometimes uh and uh because I'm by background as a scientist, I was in the beginning I was somewhat irritated by Prabhupada's statements about scientists because I was taking it quite personally. uh uh modern science.
And he takes, he basically jumps on this opportunity, taking the advantage of this verse, saying that, you know, look, there are thousands and millions of airplanes which bringing down the water of Gaṅgā. And the stupid scientists they're trying to reach the moon, but it doesn't work. They're trying to reach other planets, it doesn't work.
Modern science, false hope, and fear
So sometimes we may ask ourselves: why is he so strong about this?
And the reason is very important for us to understand because the whole worldview which is based on the scientific understanding is totally wrong. It's totally, absolutely, not only wrong, it's misleading.
It's totally, completely misleading people because it shifts the emphasis in life. And basically forces us to believe in something which is much less realistic than what is described in this verse.
We may have some doubts about celestial airplanes, you know, which are chain of celestial airplanes bringing some water. But in reality what scientists say to us is much less realistic, is much more ridiculous, in fact.
Because what science is giving to us and this is a very elaborate system of manipulating human consciousness. To manipulate human consciousness you need to have two factors.
You have to give somebody the hope, and then you have to also keep fear. So that's exactly्ट the role of the science in the modern world. It gives the hope.
Why probably is so uh uh vehement about this uh uh statements of the scientists that they will go to the moon, they will go to the other planets, you know and uh in
one sense we we would say okay, let them go if they really want. But Śrīla Prabhupāda is saying that these statements they're misleading because they give the false hope.
Ultimately, if you want to manipulate somebody's consciousness, you have to give them some hope. You know, the future will be bright. Now you're miserable, that's fine. Just tolerate it. But the future will be really good.
And then you, of course, have to add some fear and and this way you can do whatever you like with human beings.
I'm uh besides my scientific background from the Soviet Union and that was perfectly executed in the political system of the Soviet Union.
There was some hope that, you know, you will leave uh you know when the commun the the descent of communism will come and when this descent of communism uh will appear on this source, everyone will be unbelievably happy.
Just tolerate a little bit. Just few more years. Few more years. Few more years. Everything will be for free. You just for a few more years. Now you pay, now you work like a slave, but then it comes.
And then of course the fear is there, you know, if you don't do this then America will come and you know America is the figure of fear. So these two factors are there.
But the same thing is being created by the science in a very subtle level.
The science always creates this hope, you know, the future generation very soon the we will you know produce some medicine which will make you totally immortal.
But now you m of course now in the meantime m you'll die, but but in the future somebody will become immortal. In the future we will figure it out. So the hope, you know, yeah.
And then they get so much money to create this hope. All these researches which are there is basically to create the hope, the notion of hope in the minds of human beings.
And in the meantime most of this money are being spent to create new weapons. Again to create fear. Because these two factors should be there. And then you can basically do with the stupid human beings whatever you like.
You just need to do this. And therefore, Prabhupāda is so uh vehement about this because ultimately the hope is false and the fear is false.
The hope which is being created by the science is totally false because human beings will never be immortals. And even if they become immortal, that will create just another problem because there will be overpopulation.
What will you do with these people? You will kill them.
So this is a completely ridiculous hope totally irrational hope which the scientists are trying to prove, and then the fear is again totally logical because we are immortal.
Just by mistake, just by some misunderstanding, we identify with the matter, and therefore
Cultivating spiritual hope and fear of maya
we so fearful of death, which should not be there. In reality, and actually our spiritual philosophy is also very expert in creating the same kind of situation because we also hope to go to Vaikuṇṭha. This is our hope.
And we are also supposed to be fearful of māyā. But this is the real hope and the real fear.
Prabhupāda he used to say this statement, he said that uh you know the only difference between me and my disciples is that I'm fearful of māyā, they are not.
They're complacent, they they're kind of they think they tamed māyā, they think they know how to manipulate with māyā. But there's two things real.
There's two things are very much uh uh important Important for us to have to obtain that we should have the hope to go to the spiritual world. This should be our aspiration and should be our desire.
And we should also have fear of māyā because māyā is so tricky, it can always cheat us unless we develop this proper hope and proper fear, we will not be able to progress spiritually.
But because science is trying to replace the proper hope and proper fear with the false hope and false fear, it's very wrong. And it's basically a great impediment to our path of spiritual progress.
Because when we have the false hope of a bright future on this earth, or happiness and enjoyment in this world, and when we have false fear, it basically it's the reason for us to progress materially and to stop our spiritual progress.
And again, the difference between two worldviews and the psychological effects of these two worldviews is exactly the same that when we are uh pursuing spiritual paths, we are supposed to develop this understanding that the knowledge of mercy has to come down.
Whereas material progress literally means that we have to grab this mercy. We have to really strive hard.
Like Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura Prabhupāda, he compares this attempts of the scientist with the attempts of Ravana. There is this story how Ravana was trying to create a staircase to the heaven.
Because ultimately Ravana was the first revolutionary. He wanted to give benefit to all the people. He said, you know, all the people has to have free way to heaven.
You know, they just you know, if there is a staircase, just go to the staircase.
This is uh this is the dream of all these so called social workers, of all these so called social reformers or revolutionaries who are trying to bring benefit to all the people through this ascending process.
So Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur Prabhupada said that he was trying to build this you know staircase to heaven. But what happened?
Because it doesn't have you know uh the point of leaning, ultimately it crumbled, it fell apart. It just doesn't work.
This attempt to go up through your own endeavor, ultimately inevitably will come to the point when you don't have any foundation underneath.
And because you don't have this foundation, this staircase, you know you may you may build it to a certain extent, but at one point it will have to fall down because it doesn't have the foundation.
The real foundation is the mercy of the Lord. This is the point where you have to rely upon and this is the difference between the two
Self-evident knowledge versus sense perception
processes. One process is demonic. Actually, Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura in his Vaiṣṇava-siddhānta-mālā he is explaining this very beautifully. He says that there are two kinds of knowledge.
And one kind of knowledge is called Svatak Siddhanyan. Svatach Siddhagyan means that it's perfect by its own nature. It's descending knowledge, it's already there. And it has to descend upon you.
The only way to obtain this knowledge is the process of revelation. And other process of knowledge or other kind of knowledge is called Paratantra uh Indriatantra Indriya what is this Indriya Paratantra Agyana.
The knowledge which is depend uh which is dependent on your Indrias, on your senses. And he asks a very important question by discriminating between these two kinds of knowledge. What's wrong with the other kind?
What's wrong with this with this ascending process because ultimately we are interacting with this world, ultimately, we are acquiring knowledge by our senses. What's wrong with it?
He says a very significant reason for us, because it's hostile to God.
If we only rely on this kind of knowledge, if we only try to obtain knowledge through this ascending process, ultimately we will have to deny the existence of God, or ultimately we will have to basically the underlying notion behind this, or psychology behind this, is that we want to replace God.
We want to do it ourselves, by our own endeavor. He says it's hostile to God and therefore it has to be rejected. This attempts to get knowledge by this process not only futile, it's demonic.
This is how Kamsa is trying to kill Krishna. Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura he calls Kamsa as the empiricist scientist. He says he is the he is the first scientist. He is the real good scientist.
Why? Because he wants to kill Krishna. And that's exactly what science is trying to do. That trying to kill God.
And as uh as as Kamsa his policy was to kill it when it's still young, you know the the science is trying to kill the faith within the hearts of the people. When it's still young and when it's still vulnerable.
So this is the attempt, this is the demonic plot of this world. The whole world is actually very demonically designed for us uh to to destroy the space of God or to destroy Krishna. This is this is how bad it is.
Humility as the prerequisite for spiritual knowledge
And we have to very clearly understand that the spiritual knowledge can only descend. And for us to obtain the spiritual knowledge, we have to become humble.
This is the only qualification for obtaining spiritual knowledge.
When Krishna explained this is in Bhagavad-gītā, he explains that the qualification of the disciple not only he has to be humble, he has to be humble in all respects.
The humility is the only preliminary factor, the only condition which has to be fulfilled if you want to obtain spiritual knowledge.
And therefore you have to go to teacher, therefore you have to go to Guru and you have to surrender to him. Like of course in this part of the world the Ritvik movement is kind of prominent in a sense.
And they are trying to do some mischief.
But uh ultimately you know uh all their uh attempts to uh to uh replace the philosophy uh of spiritual philosophy is is Is very simple. And they ultimately want to reject the necessity of surrendering to Guru.
Because if it's Prabhupada, that's fine, you know, after all he is you know, he's he's there, he doesn't bother us so much.
They're on the pretext of following Prabhupada, they're trying to reject this very important principle principle of surrender, and in this way they basically reject
themselves the opportunity to obtain spiritual knowledge because spiritual knowledge means you have to surrender.
As Krishna says, tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnenā sevayā. says that you have to surrender, you have to surrender your body. Pranipata means you go to a guru and you just fall down like a stick.
And this is preliminary thing because this you can fake. You can bow down, you can pay daṇḍavats at the same time, not be surrendered. But even this is difficult.
Like recently I was preaching to some Russians, and one man, he's he's an elderly gentleman.
He told me his experience with his first obeisances, which he created. He said, you know, he came to a church because it was a crisis in his life. And somebody told him or priest told him to just bow down, pay daṇḍavats,
he said, It was so difficult that I was trying and just you know, it didn't really work, he said. And finally, you know, he said it took me at least 10 minutes to go down because there was a strong resistance inside.
But he said finally, when I did this, when I really forced myself and I surrendered through this process of humiliating myself by bowing down, I felt relief. But before that, it was so difficult. So even this is difficult.
So,u Krishna doesn't say you just pay obeisances because this you can very conveniently do without really surrendering yourself. We all we all know this. For the first time it's difficult, second time it's already easier.
Third time you are doing this without any problem. So but it doesn't it doesn't engage your heart in this surrendering process. You just do it: boom, boom, boom, boom, no problem. You know. Nama oṁ viṣṇu-pādāya, okay.
So therefore, Krishna says that, you know, tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā. Pariprasnana is another process of surrendering. Because this is how you become humble in your speech.
Our lack of humility or pride manifests that we basically you know we basically uh want to make an impression that we know everything. You know, like we give a lecture.
And always there is somebody in the audience, you look at him, and he always starts nodding his head. Means, "I already know." Yes, yes, I know, it's like this. So another point of humility is to ask questions. Because by asking questions you basically say that I don't know. And again, uh as we know, this is a great science how to ask questions properly, because people again can fake it. When they ask questions and at the same time do it in a challenging mood.
Prabhupāda always said that uh you should not ask questions in a challenging mood or uh you know sometimes people ask questions just to expose the speaker.
You know, the the speaker is saying something and then immediately you concoct some kind of question which is supposed to expose his foolishness.
Qualifications of guru and disciple
Again, this is useless because uh to ask questions from the spiritual master means that we're accepting uh the fact that he knows more, he knows better, that he has the experience.
Actually, uh when Krishna explains in this verse he speaks about two qualifications of spiritual master which Guru has to have, and uh the three qualifications of the disciple.
The whole relationship on the whole dynamic between Guru and Disciple relationship is there in this one verse.
He says that jñāninaḥ tattva-darśinaḥ you come to the spiritual masters and he uses plural, meaning that there are many people who know much more than we think.
Because usually and this is very fashionable, there is no guru or there is no proper guru, there is no bona fide guru.
Krishna uses plural, he says, you know, jñāninaḥ tattva-darśinaḥ. And he says about these two qualifications.
First, they have to have knowledge from the scriptures, logical knowledge from the scriptures. They have to be able to explain to you the uh consistent logical structure of the scriptures uh to dispel your doubts.
And tattva-darśana they have to have direct realization of tattva or truth. They have to have the experience of spiritual reality.
These two qualifications are there for the spiritual master but then he says the most important is the qualification for the disciple and it has to be really humility.
And uh the second you know aspect of this humility is you humble in your speech because you admit by asking questions that you don't know. That I don't really know and I'm ready to accept whatever you say.
Because sometimes people ask questions but really they are not ready to follow. As Bhakti Purusottama Swami yesterday said that Bhagavad-gītā as it is, it's a beautiful point.
It's not only what Krishna speaks, it's also how Arjuna accepts it, how Arjuna follows it. Only in this way you will ex you will get Bhagavad-gītā as it is.
Krishna speaks and Arjuna he says kariṣye vacanaṁ tava. So this is paripraśnena when you ask the question with this desire. You ask the question knowing that uh this guy may say something which I don't like, but still I will have to follow what he says.
And ultimately, you know the guru has to say something which you don't like because ultimately we don't like to surrender.
And if guru doesn't say if Guru only says something which we like, there must be something wrong with him. Or something wrong with us because we are not ready to accept this.
Therefore, this pariprashna is very important, it's a it's another deeper manifestation of humility. But then the real manifestation of humility is sevā.
Because you can also fake the questions, you can fake obeisances without being humble, you can do it. You can fake uh humility by asking some questions. That's also fine. That's we also can learn very quickly.
You know, you just ask some question with some nice look in your face, but you know ultimately, secretly, you know, I know better. I I know better.
But then what you cannot fake well what you really cannot fake the humility in the process of service. Because if you serve you have to be humble. And this is the humility which comes on the level of mind.
Krishna is saying that this humility has to be all pervading and there are three faculties which we have: one is the body, another one is the speech, and another one is the mind.
And when you do seva, seva means you become humble in your mind. You accept that this is your position to serve. This is what you are good for. You are not good for anything else. We are only good for service.
And for this you have to be humble. This is the mood within which we really have to develop and when this mood is being developed, then the knowledge will descend.
In Upanishads there are so many stories how the Guru would not give knowledge unless and until the disciple proved himself qualified in this regard, in regard of sevā.
Like Shyamasundara Prabhu is here, so there is a story in Upaniṣads, how uh how a guru, great guru, told his disciple, you know, you go and I give you two hundred cows. And you come with five hundred. Only after that you will get the knowledge.
And sometimes you wonder, you know, how by breeding cows you can get transcendental knowledge. But you can because the statement is always there.
The whole Mahābhārata story uh plot of the story starts from this from the stories about guru disciple relationship and the disciple has to prove his humility.
And only that he prepares his heart for the descent of transcendental knowledge. Because otherwise the heart is not prepared and you are not ready to uh uh accept the transcendental knowledge from the higher plane.
So you have to prepare it from uh through this process by uh by basically humbly serving the spiritual master, surrendering yourself to the feet of the spiritual master.
Story of Emperor Akbar learning submissive listening
There is no other way to obtain the knowledge. There is a very nice story from Akbar's life. Akbar was a great emperor of India. And he had this nine jewels in his heart in his court.
Nine great sages, great, you know, the great astrologer, the greatest musician, the greatest philosopher, the greatest this and that. So he was very proud about this. But on one day he got up in a
very bad mood, because the all these kings they're quite moody, they they're very much dependent on their moods. Somehow or other everything was wrong and he was so angry.
So he got all his courtiers and of course this nine uh jewels and he started yelling at them. You know, you all useless guys. You call yourself big great sages this, and that, but you're useless.
Because I've been associating with you for so many years and still I didn't get any knowledge. I didn't get any wisdom. So you're useless and I will fire you.
And strangely enough, uh in this audience, uh one of these sages brought with him his little son, who was only six years old. And his son started laughing when he heard this statement. He stopped laughing and and laughing.
And Akbar became even more angry. He said, you you rascal, you bastard, why are you laughing? I'm the great emperor. Don't you know who I am? You know why you're laughing?
And the boy said, No, your majesty, I'm not laughing at you. I'm laughing because I know the reason why you didn't get the knowledge. And I also know the reason why all these guys keep silent.
And Akbar he kind of, you know, he became a little thoughtful. So he looked at this boy and the boy looked really intelligent. He said, You can tell me the reason? He said, Yes, I can.
But for that you have to fulfill one condition. He said, What condition? He said, you know, I I I can teach you the knowledge, but you have to step down from your throne and I will have to sit on the throne.
Because this is the process. This is the only process of obtaining knowledge. You know if if you become if you want to get the knowledge you have to step down and I will have to sit here. And he looked at him.
And he became really curious. So he stepped down and he sat down on the floor. And the boy, you know, very proudly he sat on the throne. And then he asked, Do you have any questions?
And Akbar looked at him and he said, No, I don't have any questions. I already understood everything. The knowledge came to me because we changed our positions. Because the knowledge really can only descend.
The knowledge you know it it is said that you know that when when Krishna was speaking Bhagavad-gītā. Hanumān was also there on the flag. And he was also listening. Arjuna was listening and Hanumān was listening.
But Arjuna understood Bhagavad-gītā. Hanumān didn't understand Bhagavad-gītā. Why? Because he was up there. So because he was higher up, he couldn't understand this knowledge. Because this knowledge only comes down.
It's like water. It's like Ganga. It can only go down. And the only condition therefore the s it's such important condition. When we try in our attempts to get the knowledge, you know sometimes we are being
infected by this Western mentality, we you know, go to this course or to that course and we pay money to get, you know, transcendental knowledge.
But this is not the way, not the process to get the transcendental knowledge. It's not just the question of, you know, going to Māyāpur and uh passing the exam on Bhakti Shastri course.
This does not really work with all due respect to Bhakti Shastri courses and everything else. The process of obtaining knowledge is that is to become humble.
Is really Tadviddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā, Upadekṣyanti te jñānaṁ jñāninas-tattva-darśinaḥ, to find a spiritual master and to really become humble in front of him,
Nina Statvadarshanha, to find a spiritual master and to really become humble in front of him, to really feel that I'm a fool. You know.
Not that I know and then, you know, when I pass the exam I know more than my spiritual master for sure because you know he never passed Bhakti Shastri exam. He became spiritual master without this.
This is this is ignorance.
Reception of Ganga and disciplic succession
This is really sheer ignorance. And this whole story about the sand of Ganga is about this. Because we can see that the first one to receive Ganga, to accept Ganga, and this universe was Lord Shiva.
And Lord Shiva is uh is the manifestation of this Shambhu, is the manifestation of this Purush principle or ahaṅkāra principle. So what he does? He accepts Ganga on his head.
In other words, he bows down his head to accept Ganga which is coming up from the spiritual sphere by the mercy of Lord Vishnu.
When he's trying to deliver or to purify the fallen souls in this world, and therefore he makes sure that the flow of transcendental knowledge is there.
And the flow of transcendental knowledge will always be there, as much as Ganga is always there. Ganga will always be there to purify the fallen souls, and the flow of transcendental knowledge will always be there.
There's the succession, the parampara system or the sending uh process will always be there. It's only up to us to become qualified to receive this. Actually the real the real point is that we have to become qualified.
Not uh not just you know uh trying to blame somebody else that I don't have the knowledge. My guru is not qualified to give me the knowledge because I'm so special.
No, because you're so stupid he's not qualified to give you the knowledge because you're so proud.
Because you don't understand the simple point that the the only way to obtain knowledge is is to rely on the mercy, is to beg for mercy, is to pray for mercy.
And that's why we are chanting this simple prayer of Hare Krishna mantra, begging Krishna to give us some mercy from higher up.
Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama and all other attempts are not only futile. Omit
As Prabhupada says that they're going to moon excursion or to other excursions on the planet, they are not only futile, they are much more dangerous because they are demonic. They develop the demonic tendencies within us.
And ultimately, they will develop the greed, the lust, and the anger. Three doors to hell. This is what material knowledge brings within our heart.
Our attempt or our understanding that we can only rely on this material knowledge will bring to us lust, anger and greed. And that's what we can see in the modern world.
The science is victorious so to speak, but this victory is the is probably the last victory of humanity because we will be totally defeated by this victory of science.
Because what we can see only proliferation of lust, anger and greed in the modern world, which is the result of this attempt to obtain knowledge through the ascending process. Yes.
That's I thought I wanted to say very nice picture.
And when you mention that this is a sending uh the drama baby the staircase that was just reminding of the Christian because then in the Bible is also very nice example that he does work of the written Tower of Babu. Yeah. That's the basically the same story.
That's the same story. Tower of Babu. That's the same story.
Story of Yavakrit and Lord Indra
You cannot do this. When people are trying to obtain knowledge by other means, we have to be very clear that it's not possible. It's not possible.
There is a nice story in Mahābhārata about this about one ascetic who was living in the forest. Somehow or other he missed his gurukula education. And his father was a simple man.
He was also doing some tapasvī doing tapasya. His name was Yavakrit, the the son's name. And there was another guru living nearby in the forest.
And this guru was so famous and so many people would come and to pay obeisances and to bring him some you know, goods and whatever. And this Yavakrit became very envious. He said, why people are not coming to me?
Why they're coming to him? No, I'm also you know, I'm also sādhu. I'm also living here.
So he decided to do tapasya to obtain knowledge because he figured out that this guy has some knowledge and therefore people are coming, flocking around him. And he started doing tapasya, severe tapasya, great tapasya.
So much so that Indra became a little worried. But at the same time he thought this guy is useless, you know, he's doing this tapasya for the wrong purpose.
So once Indra descended in disguise of a brāhmaṇa, of an elderly person, and this Yavakrit was standing on the bank of Ganga.
And he was uh and uh one day uh he saw that there is an old brāhmaṇa on the bank of Ganga and this old brāhmaṇa is throwing sand in the Ganga. He's throwing taking some you know palm full of the sand and throwing and throwing again and throwing again.
And he became a little curious. He came to this brāhmaṇa, he said, what are you doing? He said, I need to cross Ganga. I need to go to the other side. And I cannot swim. And uh there is no boat here. So what shall I do?
I'm trying to what are you doing then? I'm I'm making a bridge, you know. After some time I will make a bridge and I will cross it over. He started laughing, this Yavakrit started laughing.
Hey how are you supposed to make a bridge by throwing sand into Ganga? Yeah this is this is ridiculous. This is totally ridiculous. Throwing sand into Ganga you cannot make bridge, you know, Ganga is so strong.
And then this brāhmaṇa looked at him and said, if you can obtain transcendental knowledge by performing tapasya, why can't I make a bridge by throwing sand into Ganga? This is the same.
If you can do this, then I can do this. If I cannot do this, then you cannot do this also. You cannot obtain knowledge by being proud. It's not possible. It's just ridiculous. Okay.
I just wanted to check if I still properly imagine the qualification of the disciples, one point qualification of guru. And uh with this kind of story that you know I'll be prosecuted. Hmm.
Yeah, and also there's the the story of the Avadhūta who had twenty-four gurus like Avadhūta? Yeah.
I was thinking that if someone is qualified, I mean if he has that humble attitude, humble mood, then anybody can make up the experience. Yeah. Yeah, you're right. Is that the point? Uh yeah, it's also the point.
Because sometimes th uh actually the point which I was trying to make is that some people they say there is no gurus. There is no gurus in ISKCON, only Prabhupāda is a guru, or you know, there were some gurus
in the past, but there will be no in the future. This kind of stuff. Whereas you know what they don't have, they don't have the qualification of being a disciple.
Therefore, of course there's no guru for them because they're too great disciples. So if you have the qualification then you can learn, you can learn from anyone.
You know, this Avadhūta, this brāhmaṇa, Avadhūta brāhmaṇa. He was learning from anyone basically. Of course, and and actually Sanātana Gosvāmī, he explains commending to this world to the story.
He says that he obtained this qualification to learn from anyone by surrendering to a particular guru.
You can only obtain this qualification by by this, you know, viable living relationship between Guru and Disciple by surrendering to him, then then you can learn from anyone. Then anything can be your guru.
But the first th there has to be this this dynamic in i in in uh in this relationship when you become humble in front of somebody, when you really become full, when you really you know ready to accept whatever he says to you and do.
And this is this is basically the training. When you get trained, then then it is said there that even your mind can become your guru. Usually we hear something contrary to this.
That mind cannot, you know, you can you cannot rely to your mind. You can. If the mind is properly trained, even the mind can become your guru. Your intelligence can become your guru.
When the intelligence is in samadhi, the intelligence becomes your guru. But for that you have to undergo specific training and this training cannot be replaced by anything else.
Personal transition from science to faith
This is the training in this relationship between the Guru and the śiṣya which has to be there. Um I was wondering how you become a devotee if you were a scientist yourself.
What happened with me is that I I kind of lost faith in science because of this point of evolution basically. Evolution was not evolution theory at one point became totally uh um unimpressive for me.
And this is one of the pillars of the science that everything comes about by chance. Uh I I was a molecular biologist, so I was studying when Darwin created his hypothesis.
Uh at that time the notion about the life was very simple that the life is stayed they thought, you know, a few chemicals mixed together and this is life.
But then by the time I was a scientist, it was very clear how complex the life is, you know, how extremely complex it's uh
and just and and I was studying exactly this I was studying the structure of the chromosomes uh and I knew how you know it's such a complex and uh chromosomes, not only chromosomes, chromosomes in the higher animals or human beings which are huge.
This is huge molecules because there is a lot of information which has to be stored there.
So much so that if you take any chromosome of the higher animal, the the length of this chromosome is a few centimeters if you unpack it.
It's a huge molecule, a few centimeters, you know, in length, totally invisible because it's so tiny. So I specifically was studying how this huge molecule
is being packed into such a tiny nucleus and how at the same time the information which is stored there is available.
The whole mechanism or the whole process, uh how uh certain points of it are being, you know anyways, so it's a whole the whole thing was there.
And uh ultimately I I came to a conclusion that this isn't this is ridiculous to say that this is th this genius mechanism just came about by chance.
And there are ten in the power of fifteen different cells. Ten in the power of fifteen. Ten with fifteen zeros behind. This is that many cells are there. And they are harmoniously working with each other and this and that.
And this is just by chance, you know, then I'm right of course. What? I'm reading this book, which is a very popular book now, it's famous famous science that's a right. I heard about this. I mean he has some good points.
Mainly he takes Christianity because they don't really have much philosophy and some of the bad things go on and never got Christianity, so that's his main thing but I
Scientific research limits and Socrates on wisdom
mean do you think the scientists are actually uh getting anywhere close to realizing how little they know?
Once read a report of one scientific group, they got a you know couple of you know the uh I don't know huge grant, few million dollars, I don't know, ten million dollars or whatever for their research.
And after five years of researching, uh they produced a report. To report for the how they spend money. Uh ten million dollars or whatever for the research. It was in the area of molecular biology.
So the first uh opening statement of this report after five years of our research, we finally realized that that we uh don't know anything or something like that. So they spent ten hours to come to this conclusion.
So they are coming to this conclusion but it's very costly for the Sometimes they come, you know, they study and study and study and ultimately they realize no we don't know anything but you know in the meantime quite some money spent.
This is this nice story about Socrates. And then Socrates was proclaimed by the oracle that he is the greatest wise man.
And when this news came, somebody asked the Oracle, you know, who is the wisest man in the whole of Greece? And I had so many wise men and s you know the oracle proclaimed the Socrates is the wisest one.
And this news came to Socrates and he was surprised. He says I was really surprised when I heard this because I I I knew perfectly well that I'm I'm a fool. I don't know anything.
You know, how is this oracle which is supposed to be you know the voice of God's? How is he proclaiming that I'm the wisest?
And then he says, and then I uh decided to find out whether it's true or not. And I went to this wise man and that wise man and this wise man and that wise man. And everyone was saying, you know, I know this, I know this, I know this and I realized that the oracle is right because I am the only one who knows that I don't know anything
and this is the truth everyone else seems that they know something. Therefore I'm I'm more intelligent than them. So this is the real intelligence when you come to this conclusion. Okay. Thank you very much. Śrīla Prabhupāda.