The Importance of Studying Scriptures
Bhakti Vijnana Goswami · Vrindavan · 2020
Chapters
Opening prayers and invocation
Mancha Kaupataru Vescha, Kripa Sindhu Vacha, Patitampa Leby, Vaishnavy Namama, Shri Krishna Chaitana Prabhu Nitananda, Sri Advaitagadhara, Srivassadibur Bhakta Vrinda Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Rai Hare, Yanda Praishamavachamamprasutam Samgi Vaya Kila Shakti Dara Swadhamanyam Shasticharana Sarana Padam Diraka darajuha putreti dandumayatayoga darabinedus tam sarvabukta hidajamuni s me,
I'm happy to be again with all of you. And Srimad Bhagavatam Maha Vidya Way. And Ratsundra Prabhu asked me to speak a few words about the importance of studying scripture and the topic of this discussion will be mostly
inspired by Śrīla Bhaktivinoda, his masterpiece Jaiva Dharma. At the very end of Jaiva Dharma, Śrīla Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura deals with a very confidential topic. Very last chapter of Jaiva Dharma, 40th
chapter, starts with the question of how to attain the highest perfectional stage of devotional service, which is called Prema Sampati Dasha. The state of attaining perfection in Prema, Prema Sampatidasha.
And Śrīla Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura says that there is a certain sequence or certain krama in attaining this highest stage and you cannot really jump in this highest stage.
And he said that the first period or the first stage through which we have to pass before we get to this highest stage, which is the stage number five, is called Sravana Dasha.
Sravana Dasha was a stage of hearing and primarily hearing the scriptures. And of course, primarily studying Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. And then next, Varanadasha, the stage of accepting certain spiritual identity.
And then Smarana Dasha the stage when we cultivate certain sentiments or cultivate this identity further.
Hearing as the foundational practice
And then Bhava Pana Dasha, the stage of attaining some spiritual sentiments, and ultimately premasamampati. So everything starts from Sravana as we know.
Sravaṇa is the first thing, but Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura took this particular topic for our discussion.
He very clearly says that it's not that any kind of shravana can be considered beneficial for attaining the highest stage of spiritual development.
Oftentimes we stress the necessity of sravana studying of the scriptures, but very rarely we go into the intricacies of how this shravana should be conducted to be ultimately successful and fruitful.
And so by explaining this general pattern that one has to go through certain stages uh starting with Shravana the Guru in uh Gopalguru Goswami in Jiva Dharma, he is explaining how Shravanadasa, what is Shravanadasa?
First, he quotes a very famous verse from the fourth Kanto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam from the end of the fourth Kanto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.
The Nārada Muni starts initializing to King Prācīnabarhi the allegoric story about King Puranjana and there Nārada Muni makes this statement.
Tasmin Mahanmukarita Madhubi Sharita Piyusha Shesha Saritah Paritak Shravanti Ya Taypi Bantavitris non ripagadha Karnai. Tanas prisayatasana tribashoka mouha.
So it's very interesting that first to explain Shravanadasha he makes or quotes this particular verse, and this particular verse explains the very essence of hearing Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. What is hearing Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam?
Because there may be many different modes of discussion of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. We can discuss Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam from many different angles of vision.
We can discuss Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, for example, from the Nyāya point of view, or from so many different angles, but it's not without a reason that Gopālaguru Gosvāmī quotes this particular verse for Śrīmad
Bhāgavatam because this particular verse from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam explains what is supposed to happen when we hear Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam? What is supposed to happen? The transmission of the taste is supposed to happen.
This is the most important. Not the transmission of meaning itself. Meaning is just a vehicle to transmit the taste. Ultimately, this is what should be expected.
Therefore, in this particular verse it is said then Tasmin Mahan Mukarita when uh this uh Madhu Bicharitra uh when this Madhu Bitcharitra the stories about uh the enemy of Demon Madhu is being explained
or taken from the mouse or from the yeah from the mouth of uh Mahan, great devotees, then Piyusha Shesha Saritah Paritaksravanti. It's as if the rivers of nectar are flowing. So that's the first very important point.
When we speak Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and we listen to Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, this point of kind of having taste for it, not just for dry intellectual study of the book, but the taste.
And therefore, as a result of it, when the thrivers of nectar are flowing from the mouths of great devotees, then uh Tayapi Bhantavitrishnon Ribagada Karna. Those who listen this with very deep ears. Garda Karnai.
It's very special expression that the ears should be deep. You know, basically you want to make your ears very deep so that not even a drop of this nectar would uh would be missed.
You know, Gadha Karna and everything should be contained within this big ears, you know. Therefore, you know the those who listen properly, their ears starts growing and growing, and they become really deep.
The nectar has to come there and stay there and therefore they're listening with these deep ears. And uh and they're not listening. They're Pibanti, they're drinking this.
So it's a special mode of listening. You're not just listening, you just're uh drinking it. And Avitrishnaha, uh you don't have any satiation. You're just listening and listening and listening, and there is no stop of it.
Uh you want to listen more more and and more without any association and the sign of the success that something really real is happening when you hear Srimad Bhagavatam, Tannas prisať ashanatri dbhaya mo shoka moha.
Such people they become free from hunger, which is very relevant at that time of the day.
You listen and you don't really look at the watch, you know, when he will stop talking because it's Prasadam time and he is going over time.
So you don't feel this Nasprishant Asana treed you don't feel the thirst, you don't feel bya fear, you don't feel shoka the grief and you don't feel moha or bewilderment or material happiness so to speak.
You know I'm so happy everything is so fine. All this is being completely forgotten if hearing of Shrimad Bhagavatam takes place.
If this does not take place, it's something which may be similar, but it's not exactly what is meant here by Shravanadasha.
Shravanadasha is a special sort of exchange between Guru and disciple when the Guru is transmitting his taste directly to the heart of the disciple. And disciple very gratefully accepts this taste and try to uh keep this taste and forgets everything else.
Initial hearing and spiritual impressions
And then uh uh And then the further discussion goes on. And in this discussion Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura makes the point that there are different kinds of hearing. The first kind of hearing he calls it bahirmukha daśā.
The stage when the person is averse to hearing. The stage when the person does not really have the taste for hearing. It's not real genuine taste.
And everyone has to start somewhere, so that's usually the beginning or the starting point when we hear so much about glories of hearing but don't really have the taste, the genuine taste for hearing. Why?
And the reason is very simple and important for us to understand. The taste we only get for such things which already made some scar in our mind.
If, for example, I will start glorifying to you something which you never tried, some Some special Russian dish. I don't know what is the special Russian dish, but and I will say to you, it's very delicious.
If you never tried it, it will not have any effect on you. Because you don't have the preliminary saṁskāra for this. The taste appears from these saṁskāras. So, therefore, for the hearing to be effective,
to be really going deeply in the heart, the preliminary saṁskāras has to be sustained or has to be left within our heart.
And therefore, the initial stage when a devotee comes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement and somebody starts glorifying to him the Kṛṣṇa līlā and he hears Kṛṣṇa līlā and he says, you know, yeah, so what? You know, just some stories.
It doesn't really have a deep impression upon his heart, doesn't really make any deep impression because there is no preliminary impression.
But also sometimes we see that devotees come very new devotees come to ISKCON and they have amazing enthusiasm and amazing taste for it.
It's only manifestation that they have the previous saṁskāras from the previous life which are actually,
Śrīla Jīva Gosvāmī gives a very specific term to this saṁskāras, the bhakti-saṁskāras. He says it's not an ordinary saṁskāras, not material saṁskāras, not the same as material saṁskāras.
Rūpa Gosvāmī says it's gṛha saṁskāras. It's saṁskāras in the soul proper, not in the mind. The material saṁskāras, material impressions are there in the mind.
But the spiritual impressions, any spiritual experience, genuine spiritual experience which we have, they're kept in the soul.
And unless we accumulate a certain amount of these spiritual saṁskāras, there will be no genuine taste. No chance to have the taste.
So the initial period of hearing is the period when we accumulate this preliminary saṁskāras and therefore it's called bahirmukha-daśā.
When we're still averse of hearing, but somehow or other we force ourselves to do it. Because we understand that this is important, we understand that this is the process.
And even though there is no taste, we still sit there and you know half asleep hearing something.
There is no question of transmission because the transmission of the taste only takes place when there is at least some preliminary saṁskāras. Then only this hearing can find the proper ground to be received, so to speak.
So this bahirmukha-daśā it has to go for some time. When can we say that bahirmukha-daśā is finished? And when the next stage of our spiritual development starts. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura gives a very interesting hint to this.
He says that this preliminary hearing, it's not really bhakti yet.
Developing genuine faith in shastra
In the beginning when we just hear without much taste and without much understanding, just because we're supposed to do it, because this is our religion, you know, we have to see it. This is this is the way.
This is this is the ritual which we have to do. And you know, oftentimes in our Bhāgavatam classes, this is just a very ritualistic activity.
You know, somebody reads something, he doesn't have any taste, his audience doesn't have any taste, and then he starts talking about something which he read on the internet, which has some taste to him.
So, but still, nevertheless, as Bhaktivinoda says, this is bhakti-unmukhi-sukṛti. This is not bhakti yet, but this is bhakti-unmukhi-sukṛti, the pious activity which ultimately will result into bhakti,
which will prepare you to result, mmh prepare you to get bhakti. But the real bhakti comes, please listen very carefully because the next statement of Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura is of great importance.
The real bhakti comes when we develop Shastriya Shraddha, and Shastriya Shraddha means intense hankering for hearing. Sastries Radha, and this is the difference.
Initial hearing is just casual hearing when we hear a little bit. But when this desire to hear more and more and more appears and not just to hear, but to hear Shastra.
And not just to hear Shastra, but to hear and to understand Shastra deeply, that means that the next stage is approaching. You get Shastri and Shraddha. And Shraddha already means little taste.
Shraddha is meaningless if there is no taste. There is no meaning to the word Shraddha if there is no taste.
So initial Shraddha, which we usually have is, not really Shraddha as Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura says, it's Shraddha Praya or Shraddha Abbas. It's just a shadow of Shraddha.
Because it does not really contain very a strong desire or eagerness for hearing. But nevertheless, it's very important and it's the initial stage which prepare us to go to the next stage.
So when we get this Shraddha together with the desire, very strong desire, whether I understand or not, like Prabhupada, he gives a very interesting description of his own from his own life, his own example of this.
He said, when I first met my Guru Maharaj, I couldn't follow what he's talking.
Something I understood, something I didn't understand because he used Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura Prabhupāda, he used very high language. And Prabhupada says, I could hardly understand what he's talking about.
But very strong desire to hear and to understand his message, what he wants to say to me was there, and that's the sign of real Shradha.
And Prabhupada was himself teaching his disciples once here in Brindavan Prabhupada had a room conversation and some Hindi speaking guests came and Prabhupada started talking with them in Hindi and some of his Western disciples were there and for some time they were sitting, couldn't understand anything and they got up and wanted to get out.
And Prabhupada said, what are you doing? They said, Prabhupada, we don't understand Hindi.
Prabhupada shouted on them and said, You sit anyway. Because you anyway don't understand what I'm talking about, whether I'm talking in English or in Hindi. So you just sit and hear. So it means if this desire, even if I don't understand anything, but still the desire is there.
This desire is the sign that you are going to the next stage of spiritual development which is called Shravanadasa. The Shravana really starts from this Shastriya
Sradha, and the lakshana or indicator of this Shastriya Shraddha, of the presence of Shastriashradha, is very strong desire despite even that I don't understand anything.
Systematic versus unsystematic hearing
I just want to hear this particular person until I understand him. But then he said that there are two kinds of Shravanadasha.
Even when people have this strong desire to hear Shastra, they may hear in two different manners. One is called Krama Shuddha Shravanadasa and another is called Krama Hina Shravanadasha.
One is very methodical and systematic hearing of shastra. And another one is very spontaneous, chaotic hearing of the shastra. I'm hearing from here and from there and from here and from there.
And then new Maharaja comes and new Maharaja tells something, and then I'm hearing from somebody else, and the end result of it, I get completely bewildered, totally confused, but have a wrong impression that I already know everything.
That's the result of this Krama Hina Shravana Dasha. It's very detrimental for spiritual life.
When you hear many different people, actually, Srila Jiva Gaswami, he very specifically says in Bhakti Sandarbha that in the beginning you can hear many people when you initially develop some attraction to hear Krishna Katha, but then at the next stage you stop hearing many people, you hear one person.
Because only from hearing one person or at least one line you can get something more systematic. Because every and it's of course difficult. I don't please don't take me wrong.
I don't mean to say that now you run away from any new Maharaja who comes and wants to enlighten you. And on the first place, you should have run away from me if you would follow very consistently what I am to say.
But at least the meaning here is that primarily we should hear and take seriously, one person in whom we develop very strong faith in his realization, in his personality, and his practice of bhakti.
And we should make him one source of our inspiration, or at least primary source of our inspiration, in studying Shastra.
Because if we hear one person, there is a chance, not necessarily, but at least there is a chance, and that he will explain to us Shastra in a systematic manner. Whereas if we hear different persons, there's no chance.
It's just it's just not possible. And therefore, this, this krama-hina and krama-shuddha, krama-shuddha shravana-dasha is very important. And what Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura says, he says a very interesting thing.
He says that this krama-hina shravana-dasha, when we hear unsystematically, without proper understanding, we will never get the complete picture.
What we will get as a result of this unsystematic hearing, we will get something from here, something from there.
We may know some stories from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. By now, probably you know all the stories from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.
But if I ask you, please explain to me why this story is there in this particular place of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. What it is supposed to teach us,
What we are supposed to understand and what we are supposed to feel after hearing this story, most probably you will never be able to tell this. So, this disconnected knowledge.
Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura gives a very important reason. He says then when the knowledge is disconnected in this way about Krishna līlās.
The Krishna līlās will not become the complete you will not get the complete picture or complete understanding and the interrelationship between the Krishna līlās, between līlās of different avatāras, how their strength together and how they are actually leading you to Krishna līlā and how Krishna līlās are you know giving you some experience?
Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura is very specific. He says that if you hear unsystematically in this krama-hina shravana dasha in the period of unsystematic hearing, then you will not get spiritual experience.
You will not get the experience of rasa. This is Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, I'm just repeating what he's saying.
So and the experience of rasa is something which is which is supposed to take you out of this world and bring you to the spiritual reality, which actually have to give you the experience of reality of the spiritual world.
So, and that's that's a very important achievement or important result.
It's one thing we're sitting here in this material world, and we have all the desires which are there and we want to eat and we want to drink and we want to and we have some sorrows in our head and this and that.
And yes, we listen to Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Nice. Very good.
But when you listen to Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam in a very specific way with eagerness from a person whom you have complete trust systematically, then this transmission of the taste takes place and you're transported into the realm of rasa.
You get something different. The Kṛṣṇa-līlā becomes reality for you. It's not just the book stories, it's not something from the book, it's something from the real world.
You see, you get the experience, and that's what Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura Thakur says. And that is only possible when you hear systematically. It will not take place if you hear unsystematically.
Because especially if we're talking about Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, everything is very important there. And everything is ultimately designed in such a way as to give you the real spiritual experience. The experience.
of rasa. Or experience, what is rasa? It's experience of basically coming in contact with Krishna and his spiritual energy.
Cultivating taste for nitya lila
So that's why it is so important and Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, he goes further and he says that at one point of hearing, what is very important, it's also something very unusual and unorthodox in ISKCON settings.
But still we have to say what Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura says.
He says that at one point you have to separate two important kinds of līlās of Kṛṣṇa: nitya-līlā and naimittika-līlā. Because usually in majority of the cases when we hear about Kṛṣṇa-līlā, we usually hear about his naimittika-līlās.
Some occasional līlās which are very important, but Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura says that specifically śravaṇa-daśā, if it's conducted properly, if you properly hear scripture, then at one point of your spiritual development, you have to develop taste.
And you know, naimittika-līlās of Kṛṣṇa, they have definitely some taste. There is a lot of action.
He kills some demons, and you know, he's like a superman and he, you know, he does something with the crane, with Bakāsura, and he goes into the mouth of Agasura and he expands himself and you know Agasura's head burst and so many other things.
And Nitya Lila is, you know, Krishna gets up in the morning and he goes and takes breakfast and and mother Yaśodā brings some warm water from the you know and he's taking bath so what's there what's where is the taste?
No action. Nothing special. Nothing spectacular from the very superficial point of view. But Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura says that at the end of the day if you don't develop the taste for for nitya lila of Krishna, you're nowhere.
Unfortunately. So but again it's a gradual development. I don't propagate this, but it's a it's a gradual development which has uh to take place over a period of time.
Completing the stage of shravana
And then uh Vijay Kumar asks his Gurudev, when this Shravana Dasha is completed, when we can understand and how we can understand that this period of my spiritual life is over and I can go further.
And again, Bhaktivinoda Thakur gives a very important sign of it. He says that when one realizes the eternality of Krishna Lila, when one really understands that Krishna Lila is taking place right now, here.
That Krishna Lila is not something again taken from the book or some ancient history, when one gets this absolutely clear understanding that this is the Lila which is going on right now, then you're successfully past this period of Shravanadasha.
So I thought of talking a little bit about this high subject matters just because we have to understand very clearly what we are doing.
In the 10th canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Krishna asks his father, before this Govardhana Līlā, he asks his father, Father, what are you doing?
And then Krishna says: if somebody is doing something because of tradition or because of custom or because everyone else is doing, then there is a good chance that he will not get result.
If somebody is not clear what is the goal, what is the praying of what he is doing, then there is a good chance that he will miss the whole point.
So I thought of bringing this topic here in this esteemed assembly, just to somehow rather to bring your attention to the very purpose of systematically studying Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.
By systematically studying Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam with the help of Sandarbhas of Jīva Gosvāmī, which is actually the systematic explanation of the philosophy and practice of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and Sanskrit, but the reason is very simple: to get the taste and ultimately to realize the eternality of Krishna's līlā.
If you know perfect Sanskrit and know Sandarbhas and know Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam by heart, but don't really realize this, you failed. You may get a good marks on the exams in Bhagavad Mahavidya, but it's not enough.
So, and that's the science of hearing. We have to hear, we have to understand that during this hearing, the transmission of the taste has to take place. We have to be very clear about the ultimate goal of it.
The eagerness or desire has to be there within our heart for hearing, understanding the relevance and urgency of this. It's actually very urgent because we may die. Believe it or not.
Usually we don't believe that we die, but it will happen. And it will happen usually sooner than you expect. This is how it usually happens. So uh therefore all these components should be in place.
And then even when you get the taste for hearing and desire for hearing, still you have to hear in a very systematic manner with the desire to understand the complete whole.
How the different pieces or different parts of Srimad Bhagavatam they are together to bring us to this experience of the eternality of Krishna līlā or the highest absolute reality which is manifest as Krishna līlā. How each and every teaching or detail of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is actually there to bring us to this point.
Then only it will be successful. So that's that's a little short talk on this topic. How important it is to study shastra systematically and what should be the goal of study.
And then when you realize the eternality of Krishna līlā, then you can get the diploma of Bhagavata Mahavidyalaya and you know Diploma of Maha Bhagavata and then and then transmit the taste further.
Questions on lila and spiritual source
But ultimately this is this is what is supposed to to take place. Any questions? No. I really think also with Jīva-dharma and I'm very happy that you spoke this thing.
But I didn't understand his point like to not tackle makes that you know we make a distinction between nine mythical leaders and these leaders. You know, because we do hear the nine mythical leaders.
And it specifically said that by hearing those līlās, certain obstacles will be destroyed. Yeah.
Therefore, I said that at one point of our hearing, the taste for hearing naimittika-līlā, nitya-līlā will very strong taste for hearing nitya-līlā will awaken within our heart.
In the beginning, it may not be there, and we shouldn't try to artificially kind of squeeze out the taste. If it's not there, it's not there.
But Bhaktivinoda Thakura says that if you hear properly with the proper attitude and hear systematically, then ultimately you will develop very strong interest towards Krishna as a person.
And therefore, like for example, very gross example,
but still nevertheless, when somebody is a fan of some you know pop star or somebody somebody, then he wants to know the minute details of how he lives, and you know, and it's very dear to his heart because it nourishes his relationship with this person.
So, in the same way, in the beginning you may have taste for you know some spectacular things, you know, he's so glorious and he's doing this and that.
But then at the end you want to know how he is like a person as a person, how he is in his intimate personal dealings, how he is in the very close circle of his intimate friends, not how he you know performs on the stage when the millions of people hear him and cheer him and this and that.
So this naimittika is something like Krishna is on the stage a little bit and he is doing something spectacular.
But you know at one point if your interest deepens in personality of Krishna, then these details become very important for you, which may not be of any importance now.
It was interesting also, you said that when we are hearing and we develop this uh greed, we want to hear then we want to hear from one person. This is what Jīva Gosvāmī says, yes. Yeah, but it is an important point.
It is important point, yes. It's all systematic. Yes. But then you develop a greed, I want to hear systematic. Yeah.
You know, and therefore we find it. And therefore there is a primary, primary source of your inspiration will come to you. Yes. Krishna will say. Yeah.
Also the question comes up that you know your hearing and you say this is the primary stage is rather dust. But is it that you're always hearing? In every stage.
Yeah, it it doesn't mean that we stop hearing, but uh when it is said that śravaṇa is the first stage, uh it basically means that this is the main activity which is taking place there.
Yeah, it will be continued in every step. Yeah. Yeah. But then on the stage of smarana dasha smaranam will become very prominent. But it doesn't mean that you stop hearing. It will continue of course. Of course.
Even in the spirit In a spiritual world people also hear, so it's no problem. Yes, yes. Systematic hearing you're going. You're going up. You're going up. Yeah. Without the systematic hearing.
Questions on developing taste for hearing
Without the systematic hearing, you you will you will only eat prasādam. Two questions.
First one is that you explained you having this uh bahirmukha-daśā. So in the first one, someone doesn't have some saṁskāra. It's very difficult to grab some of these. You are giving example of some Russian beach.
So like a normally those who are living in the material conditions so doesn't gather all bahirmukha against Krishna.
So now for them how to develop that you know that intensity to hear that, you know, because naturally they are agreed, they are developed to hear, like in the, you know, Śrīla Prabhupāda, whenever Prabhupāda starts speaking, That means we have to test every year. So how to develop that?
See you cannot expect that it will develop immediately, but if the speaker is qualified, then you will get a taste even in the first stages, initial stages, you will you will be attracted to a certain extent, a little bit.
And this initial attraction, therefore it is said that the first stage is, you know, you meet with the devotee and you get attracted to a devotee and you start listening to him.
And even though you don't understand you don't understand, you don't have taste yet, still by hearing him, little by little the taste will come.
But it very much depends on the purity of a devotee or the purity of the message, of the speaker, yes. So the initial contact is very important.
If the initial contact is proper, then even though you may not, you're still averse to hearing, but still you'll get some little taste. Some some taste uh will be transmitted to you.
Second question is like your unfortunate, you know, one has to hear about it nitya-līlā. When one is advanced. So normally whatever explanation, I think there is some explanation, explanation in depth of the nitya-līlā.
In Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam uh it's dispersed. Nitya and naimittika līlās are there together.
Like for example in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam in the 15th chapter of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, there is a description how Krishna comes back from herding cows and how gopīs run away and see him and there are a couple of verses there.
So it's all there in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, but it's all intertwined, the context in the context of prākṛta-līlās. But it's definitely there and when you hear systematically you will get uh you will get an idea.
And then of course Acharyas they explain it in more detail how how it goes. But uh originally everything is there in Srimad Bhagavatam. It's it's definitely there.
I think uh Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura or someone said that you know even Krishna's this happening here is more attractive than whatever līlā is happening spiritual world uh yes, he says this uh because yeah because uh something additional is happening here uh but it's not it's more attractive. It's it would not be correct to say that it's more attractive.
It's just ja. This bhauma-līlā is special, bhauma-līlā is special because it has some additional features which are not there like you know, but anyway, so you're fortunate. You're not yet in the spiritual world.
But as uh you give emphasis to hear from one person. So in these con scenarios you have many acharyas and they have different groups uh paramparās so and we have to hear from them.
So for example uh uh for a particular verse they explain according to their mood. So as a sādhana how we maintain one mood by hearing different actions. It's like this. It's simple.
If you hear somebody, even even Sanātana Gosvāmī explains this, he says that if you hear somebody long enough, then you develop the ability to filter out something which is not compatible with this mood and only get or extract something which is compatible with the mood.
If you hear long enough somebody who is the primary source of your spiritual development and spiritual inspiration, then
by hearing others, you will hear how your own guru speaks through them, and you will disregard some things which are not compatible with him.
Like, for example, Prabhupada, when a konductor, train konductor, told him, Swamiji, why are you printing these magazines? Magazines people read and then throw out. Why don't you print books?
Prabhupāda thought, this is my Guru Maharaj speaking through this train conductor. Why? Because Prabhupāda had filter. And he knew this is something which his Guru Maharaj would tell him.
And he he knew that this is this is his. And if train conductor would say something else, he probably would not disregard it.
But this he took seriously because he listened his guru long enough and with intense enough feelings to understand what is according to his mood and what should be taken and what should be disregarded Long enough.
Long enough that's a little bit more.
Role of kirtana in spiritual progress
Long enough and with and with enough eagerness. Question. Is it possible to achieve this um last stage about which you say that understand about internity of uh Kṛṣṇa-līlā without uh performing of uh No, it's not possible.
Hare Kṛṣṇa saṅkīrtana is implied. Hare Kṛṣṇa saṅkīrtana even Śrīla Jīva Gosvāmī in Bhakti-sandarbha he says when he speaks about śravaṇa, uh not śravaṇam, and he speaks about smaraṇa.
Because sometimes in especially in Vrindavan people say that you have to meditate and you have to do śravaṇa smaraṇam. Śrīla Jīva Gosvāmī specifically says saṅkīrtana-aparityāgena. You should not give up.
Sankirtana has to be there all the time.
And when Rūpa Gosvāmī gives his final advice, Upadeśāmṛta, he also says the same thing. āmṛta, he also says the same thing: tām-rūpa-tan-nāma-rūpa-caritādi-sukīrtanānu- -vṛtyor kramena rasanā-manasī niyojya. So, Śrī Caitanya
Vraja, yes, you already doing this. So, nāma, rūpa, and so, caritādi, and so, kīrtanānu. You do kīrtan of all these things and then smṛti, your kramena rasanā. In a certain order your mind will be engaged in remembering.
So the first should be Sukirtana or Sankirtana. Sankirtan has always to be there. Sankirtana Aparityagaina. Smaranam Kuriat Okay. Thank you. Thank you very much.