Srimad-Bhagavatam 2.10.8
Bhakti Vijnana Goswami · Copenhagen · 2023
Chapters
Invocational prayers and verses
Omna mo Bhagavateva Sudevaya Sudeva, Omna mo Bhagavate Sudevaya no pak sudeva, Omna mo bhagavat Sudeva seva sudeva nara namaskritya skritam cheva narotama, chaiva otama, devim saraswati, saraswati yasam, tatujam dhiraya.
Yamprava Jantamanupetampetakrityam, Dwaipaya Now Virahakatara Juhava, Putriti Mayatayota Vinedus damsarva Buddha Hridayamunimana Smeam Jan Madhya Sayadun Vayatataratas charteshvabikaswarat de ni brahmahridayadikwai
muhyanantiat Suraya, The Jovariam ridam Yathavini Mayatri Sargum Risha, Damnas Vina Sadani Rasta Khakam satyam paramdimahi Satyam Paramhi Mahi Satyam Paramimahi. So we reading today a very interesting verse from
the second Kanto Srimad Bhagavatam. Tenth chapter. Bhagavatam is the answer to questions, text number eight. Yaha Adjat Mikaha, Ayamburushaha, Saha, Assaul Eva, Adhidavika, Yaha, Tatra, Ubhaya, Vichedaha, Vida, Purushaha, Usa,
Adhibhotikaha, Yodhyatmi, Yodmiko Yampurusha, Dyatniko Yamur So Savavad Hidavikahan, Savitaivika, So Savavad Hidai Vikaham, So Sāva Yasta vedaham, santoya vichedam, yasta viced Purushyadhikahan, Purushoka,
Purusokya bhiphotika, Yodyatmi koyampurusha, sosafadhidai vikaha, Sama Divika, Yastatroba Visse, Purushohya Dibhoti Ya ha one who adhyatmikaha Is possessed of the sense organs. I am this. This Purushaha personality saha
Heath Eva also Adhidai Kaha Adika Controlling deity, Yaha, that which Tatra there Ubhaya of both licheda separation purusha person he foour Adibhautikaha the visible body or the embodied living entity.
Translation and put forward by His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Distinction between controller and controlled
The individual person possessing different instruments of senses is called the adhyatmic person. And the individual controlling deity of the senses is called Adidaivik.
The embodiment seen on the eyeballs is called the adhebotic person. I think everything is very clear. So Srila Prabhupada explains the meaning.
The Supreme Control sumum bonum is the personality of God in his plenary portion of Paramātmā or the Super Soul Manifestation.
In the Bhagavad-gītā, it is said Adhavā bahunaitena kiṁ jñātena Tavārjuna viṣṭabhyaṁ aham idaṁ kṛtsnam ekāṁśena sthito jagat.
All the controlling deities like Vishnu, Brahma and Shiva are different manifestations of the Paramātmā feature of the Supreme Personality of Godhead Śrī Kṛṣṇa, who exhibits himself in such manners by entering into each and every universe generated from him.
But still, apparently, there are divisions of the controller and controlled.
For example, in the food controlling department, the controller of food is a person made of the same ingredients as the person who is controlled.
Similarly, each and every individual in the material world is controlled by the higher demigods. For example, we have our senses, but the senses are controlled by superior controlling deities.
We cannot see without light, and the supreme controller of light is the sun.
The sun god is in the sun planet, and we the individual living beings or any other being on the earth are controlled by the sun god as far as our eyes are concerned.
Similarly, all the senses we have are controlled by superior demigods, who are also as much living entities as we are, but one is empowered while the other is controlled.
The controlled living entity is called the adhyātmika person and the controller is called adhidaivika person. All these positions in the material world are due to different fruit of activities.
Any individual living being can become sun god or even Brahmā or any other god in the upper planetary system by a higher grade of pious work and similarly one becomes controlled
by the higher demigods by lower grades of fruitive activity. every individual living entity is subject to the supreme control of the Paramatma who puts everyone in different positions of the controller and the controlled.
That which distinguishes the controller and controlled, the material body is called the Adibautic Purusha.
The body is sometimes called Purusha, as confirmed in the Vedas in the following hymn: Sava Esha Purusho Anna Rasamaya. This body is called Anarasa embodiment.
The body depends on food, the living entity which is embodied, does not eat anything. However, the owner is spirit in essence.
And the material body requires replacement of matter for the wearing and tearing of the mechanical body.
Therefore, the distinction between the individual living entity and the controlling planetary deities is in the Anna Rasamaya body.
The Sun may have a gigantic body, and the man may have a smaller body, but all these visible bodies are made of matter.
Nonetheless, the sun god and the individual person who are related as the controller and the controlled are the same spiritual parts and parcels of the supreme being, and it is the supreme being
who places different parts and parcels in different positions and thus the conclusion is that the supreme person is the shelter of all.
Shiva Prabhupada Kijaya Namam Vishnu Padaya Krishna Praishtaya Bhutale Srimati Bhaktividanta Swami Nitinamina Namaste Sraswati Devi, Gauravani Prachari Nirvisha Sunya Vadi Paschatades Sri Krishna Chaitanya Prabhunitananda Syadvaita Gdatta Sri Vasadigaura Bhakta
Hare Rāma Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare, Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare, Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare, Krishna Hare Hare, Hareama Hareama Rama Rama Hare Hare
Namasristamanu mapisa chi putramatraswarupam rupam tasyagrajamurupurimadhurim ghostabati radha kundha girivaramaho, radikamadhavasam praptoyasya pratiri kripaya, s grumnat, osmi.
Literal translation of the verse
Yandah pra vishi mamma vachimam prasubam sanje vaya ta kila shakti darah swadham nanyam schah charana shravanat vahadim prana So
again, it's a very uh interesting verse and, I will try to explain the different aspects of its meaning. Literally, from the grammatical point of view, it's very simple.
Literally it is said: Yaha Adhyat Mikaha Ayam Purushaha. This Purusha, the person, has the nature of adhyatma, his Atma, meaning that he is consciousness, he's conscious, he can perceive. Saha, asul Eva Adidaivika.
But he is indeed the same Purusha is indeed Adidaivika. So the first line of this verse literally states that there is no difference between Adiatmika Purusha and Adidavi Kapurusha.
And the second line of the verse again literally says, Yaha, hihu, Tatra, there, Ubhavichha.
Where the difference differentiation takes place, the differentiation takes place in the Purusha who is Adivika. So very clear concept. So literally again it is said that there is no difference between uh Adyatmika and Adidaivika, but the difference takes place when uh the Adibhautika Purusha manifests.
So let's try to understand what Śrīla Śukadeva Gosvāmī wants to say. It's actually very rewarding if we understand this. And there could be, of course, different interpretations of this verse.
Śrīla Prabhupāda gives one very unique and beautiful interpretation. And Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura gives a completely different interpretation. So to understand the meaning of this verse, we have to go to context.
We cannot understand the meaning of verse without knowing very clearly what is the context of this verse.
So the chapter which we are reading from is the tenth chapter, the last chapter of the Second Canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. And the whole meaning of this second chapter is to teach us the process of hearing.
The First Canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam was mostly describing the qualification of hearing Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam to make this process successful. What are different grades of qualification you have to have to
be successful in the hearing of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, being successful, meaning completely relinquishing this body, distancing from this body and obtaining the spiritual identity. And the second canto, again, very logically
is explaining when When you're qualified, what should take place when you hear Srimad Bhagavatam? How the hearing of Srimad Bhagavatam should happen. Because oftentimes we mix or we substitute hearing and listening.
There is a difference between hearing and listening. Hearing means comprehending. Hearing I hear and I comprehend.
And therefore, the Second Canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is explaining this process of comprehending the message of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Whereas listening means I'm just sitting there and listening. I'm listening to music.
It just goes into one ear, comes out from another ear, fine, no problem. I listen. So oftentimes we're sitting in the lecture of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, and we're just listening to the lecture of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.
Something is, you know something is like the uh leaves in the tree under the uh uh wind. The what you call this?
The anyway, there is some sound is going on. And sometimes it's very nice soothing sound and we just fall asleep. It's so nice, you know.
So so but uh uh the second canto is important because it explains to us what should take place. You know, first. It is explained that first you should meditate on what you hear.
And meditation is supposed to create an upsurge of enthusiasm in you. That's the next very important stage of hearing. If hearing does not produce enthusiasm, then the hearing didn't take place. There was no hearing.
Hearing should strengthen the faith. And after this enthusiasm, enthusiasm serves as a digestive enzyme which helps us to understand deeper the meaning of what has been said.
So then the process of deliberation of what we have heard is described in the second canto. So second canto has this four three important parts.
First is meditation on the subject matter which we heard, then enthusiasm created by this meditation, and then the deliberation on the subject matter.
So this last section of the second canto is about this: about deliberation on the subject matter.
And therefore, in the very last chapter of the second canto, the whole context, the whole structure, the whole idea, the message of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is very clearly and beautifully explained.
It is explained in this 10th chapter of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, which is called, which Śrīla Prabhupāda again very aptly entitled Bhāgavatam is the answer to all questions, it is explained
the design of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, the structural design of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam wants to give us the understanding of the nature of the Supreme Absolute Truth. That's the idea of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.
And if we understand the Supreme Absolute Truth in true sense, then everything is done, the job is done, we know the Supreme Personality of Godhead. And to know means to love. And to love means to know.
So if we know him we may not help but love him. We will definitely for sure 100% fall in love with him. So, but it's very difficult to explain the nature of the Supreme Personality of God because he's adhokṣaja.
He's not visible by the senses, he's not perceivable by the senses.
He's hiding behind this, you know, this beautiful material nature, which is dazzling, which is bewildering, which is putting us into illusion and invoking in us the spirit of enjoyment.
So how do we understand him, how we can't stand him, and
therefore Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam adopts a very rash and very interesting methodology to explain the Supreme Absolute Truth, which is the shelter of everything, by explaining how everything which we see, everything which is visible to us, which is perceivable, and everything which is happening to us, how it is connected and dependent on the Supreme Absolute Truth.
And by understanding this connection and understanding how the nature of the Supreme Absolute Truth is reflected in this world, we will understand the Supreme Absolute Truth and fall in love with him.
So that's the methodology of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.
And basically, first nine cantos are explaining the visible reality, including the reality of our life, what is happening, why it is the reality of the law of karma, reincarnation, so on and so forth.
And then we arrive to the tenth canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam fully equipped and ready to accept the revelation
of the spiritual nature of the supreme shelter, āśraya, the Supreme Personality of God who is beautiful Kṛṣṇa Himself, who is beautiful, kindly.
So that's the general design of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, which is explained in this specifically in this tenth chapter of the second canto, which describes the 10 topics of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and explains very clearly that the nine first topics are there to give us
understanding of the tenth topic and to give us the sense of belonging to this tenth topic. Because love is nothing but this mamatā. He's mine.
So if we understand the inseparable connection between us, this material world, everything, and all other living entities.
Then this mamatā, I belong to him at the first stage of our spiritual development, when it will very clearly manifest within our heart and it means we love the supreme personality of Godhead.
Explanation of the ten topics
So that's the whole design and the whole idea of this second canto and specifically last section of this last six chapters of the second canto, and specifically this tenth chapter of the second canto. So in the beginning of the 10th chapter of the second canto,
Śrīla Śukadeva Gosvāmī explained these 10 topics of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. atra sarga visargaś ca sthānaṁ poṣaṇam ūtayaḥ manvantarāṇīśānukathā Niroda Muktir Ashra.
So he says this is the ten topics the and and then he explains each topic separately.
Sarga, creation, visarga, secondary creation, or the creation of the living entities according to their karma, placing them in the respective position atrasar visargas chastanam, the relative position of different living entities which they are occupying according again to their karma in different planetary systems.
So the creation of the whole universe is there, and the different planetary system in the universe is there, and the mentality of people who are there, and portion them, how they maintain themselves being placed in different positions.
And then what is the manvantara, manvantara, how no Uti uti how the nature the nature of individual living entity is formed by their activities, dictated by their impetus to act.
That's Uti, and then Manvantara means how they should act in reality. What is the real Dharma of living entities?
And then Ishonukatha, how Krishna manifests his mercy by coming into this world and how the devotees of the Lord teach us how to behave in this world. And then niroda.
Niroda means the destruction of this world and destruction of individual body, destruction of the universe. And then mukti, liberation, and then ashva.
So that's I mean I'm sure you know perfectly well by now all the ten topics of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. So he finished it in the previous verse. Śukadeva Gosvāmī. Completely. That topic is covered.
So that's the basically, that's the first verse which we read today of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Prabhu. So everything else before this verse was the introduction to Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.
So he gave us the general context: what Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is all about, how Śrīmad Bhāgavatam is designed.
Pitfalls of material scientific analysis
And now he starts with the first topic of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, which is sarga, elementary creation.
But again, from the very beginning he wants to say that please don't get bewildered, don't get illusioned by the complexity of this material creation.
Because the tendency when we try to analyze, and that's exactly what's happening with material scientists. They also study this material creation. And they also try to analyze the material creation.
They cut material creation down into different parts and little particles.
And you know, cut it then more and more and more and more. And they hope that when they cut it to the last, you know particle, then they will find out what they call God particle.
That's official physical name of the supposedly the most elementary particle of creation. Now we found you know the origin of everything. This is God. This is the shelter of everything.
So but in the process of trying to analyze this material creation they get completely bewildered and it's not surprising because this creation is very bewildering indeed.
You know, you try to study little part of it and you know you will find out that it's practically unlimited. It's inexhaustible, it's really inexhaustible. Rajareno gave me a good word in Russian. So you you uh like you
know there was one very famous Russian scientist who his whole life was studying the worms which are living in your intestine. That was a very interesting subject matter of his uh scientific research.
And somebody asked him, Are you not bored? You know, studying this worm, uh, you know, just worm your whole life you dedicated to study the worm, and he said, you know, the worm is so long and life is so short.
So basically the idea here is that you know every little particle of creation is so complex and you can study you can study this little table for the rest of your life and you will you will not be able to say with certainty that you know this table because it's so complex.
It may look simple, but in reality, there's so much interesting going on, you know, how you can utilize and do this. And that's exactly what people are doing.
They're looking at this creation of God and they become bewildered more and more. And the more that they study, the more they are bewildered, because there is a very interesting design which Krishna is built in.
This trick is built into this creation. This creation, when we studied separately, similems seems to be independent. It seems to be self-sufficient.
You know, when we look at this creation, you know, everything seems to go on on its own.
There are some processes, some laws of nature. And people by studying this, by being bewildered by this material nature, by this material creation, they come to a completely wrong conclusion.
There is no need of God. Everything is just working on its own, automatically. It's just a uh beautiful machine. We we don't know how it appeared, but you know, but somehow or other it's there.
And our uh our Our real task is to know exactly how it works and to squeeze out the most out of it. So basically, that's the idea, and that's how māyā works.
You know, we look at the creation and we think, you know, no, no, it's just working on its own. So therefore, to save us from this gross mistake. And you know, gross mistake, and at the same time very common mistake.
From the very beginning, Śukadeva Gosvāmī starts describing the creation in a completely different way. So that's what we see in this verse in the next verse.
Universal dependence on the Supreme
That's what we should understand, because this is in one sense the key verses.
He gives us in the beginning, from the very beginning, he gives us the key by which by having which we can unlock this whole material creation and understand.
And he says from the very beginning that the that the implication of this verse, this and the second verse, because this and the second then the next verse, the ninth verse of this chapter, they are describing the dependence of everything which we see on God.
So the mistake which you can make by looking at this creation, everything is independent. And you know, if everything is independent, I am also independent. I am free.
You know, people in this world they they want freedom, right? Everyone wants freedom. Who wants freedom? Yeah. Okay. Very good. Welcome to the material world. There is no freedom here. There is no freedom. It's a fiction.
You know, freedom means you should stop breathing because it's a slavery. You have to breathe. You know, and the air doesn't belong to you. Air belongs to somebody else. You're dependent.
You're dependent on water, you're dependent on food, you're dependent on other living entities, you're dependent on sages of the previous ages, you are dependent on so many things.
And still we always declare, I'm free. I am free. We are born by our parents. You know, the Vedic culture would teach how everyone is completely dependent and how to function being dependent properly
by recognizing your dependence, not falsely declaring I'm completely free, you know, and I can do whatever I like.
So, and here is the most succinct succinct uh and most interesting description of the dependence of the living entity in these two verses, which we have to understand from the very beginning. Which is the foundation.
From the very beginning. So Śrīla Prabhupāda gives a very interesting interpretation to this verse. Basically, he gives the conclusion. And the conclusion is absolutely right.
He says the conclusion which we should understand from this particular verse, from the very beginning, before we start getting into details. Because if we get into details prematurely, uh we will be bewildered.
So first we have to understand what is the conclusion we verse, and Śrīla Prabhupāda makes this conclusion in the last sentence of the purport. And thus, the conclusion is that the Supreme Person is the shelter of all.
So that's the conclusion which we should arrive. And actually, that's the right answer.
It's like you know if there is some uh little puzzle or uh some task in mathematics, they sometimes they give you an equation and you have to solve the equation, and sometimes they give you the solution. What is the right solution?
To make sure that you do it right. So that's the right solution of the whole puzzle.
The conclusion and that's very you know apt and appropriate by Srila Prabhupada to say in the in this introduction to the whole Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, or at least to this topic of sarga.
And thus the conclusion is that the Supreme Person is the shelter of all. So, how Śrīla Prabhupāda arrived to this conclusion by using this verse? Śrīla Prabhupāda makes a very beautiful thing.
By giving example of the production line. He says, what we see, he says what Śukadeva Gosvāmī wants to say to us.
Śrīla Prabhupāda explains it like this: that there is, we can see by looking objectively in this world, that there are people who are higher and there are people who are lower.
There are people who are controlling and there are people who are controlled. There are people who are exploiting and people who are being exploited.
And uh uh uh why they're there and uh as Śrīla Prabhupāda says, they're basically the same people.
You know, some king or big rich person who is exploiting thousands and hundreds of thousands of people who are working for him, making him richer and richer and richer. He is the same person, he is created from the same elements.
You know, and you know there are s there are higher living entities, sun god, uh other gods. They have the same body. Still they are placed higher and uh and uh some are placed higher and some are placed lower.
And uh oftentimes we ask why? Why is this injustice there? Why somebody is higher, why somebody is lower.
Śrīla Prabhupāda explains that even though they're equal, and sometimes you know the revolution is there, you know, great French Revolution, freedom and uh fraternity and equality, we're all equal, we're all equal, yeah.
You know how many years passed from uh French Revolution? Nobody's equal. It's against the law of nature. We are created unequal.
And all this modern fashionable egalitarian ideas, you know, everyone is equal, you know, women are equal and men are equal and now you know you don't even know whether you're men or women you're equal.
Anyway, everything is just big potato mesh where no distinction is there. So this is crazy idea. This is completely against the nature of the things.
If we objectively and impartially look at the nature of the things, we see hierarchy. It's natural.
To deny the hierarchy is just to deny the reality. So the hierarchy is there, somebody is higher, somebody is lower, somebody who is higher, always exploiting somebody who is lower. It's inevitable, you know.
Poor vegetables are lower than human beings.
There are poor human beings who are eating vegetables, if we are to be consistent to bring this idea of equality we should sometimes eat vegetables and sometimes allow vegetables to eat us.
But uh it's a crazy idea. It's a crazy idea from the very beginning. So there is a natural hierarchy in this creation and um uh and how this hierarchy is created this hierarchy is created because of karma
Śrīla Prabhupāda explains in the purport why somebody is higher, why somebody is lower.
You know, everyone is equal in the sense that if you have some common sense, you will understand that if you behave better, you will be placed in a better position, more advantageous position. If you follow the laws of nature, if you follow the law of karma, you will be placed higher in this chain which is there in this material world.
So they're distinguished, they're the same as it is said in this world, in this verse, that the Yatmika Purusha, which is us and Adidvaivika Purusha, the higher beings who are controlling us, they are the same, but the bodies are different and therefore they are placed in a different position.
And that's how Srila Prabhupada explains this verse. How did he arrive to the conclusion that supreme personality of God is the highest of all, is the shelter of all? Very simple. Who created this system?
Who is behind this system? Who told that somebody is higher and somebody is lower? What is this position? Who is the creator of this law of karma? Is somebody who is doing this? We can logically arrive to this conclusion.
We should logically arrive to this conclusion by seeing the inequality, accepting, recognizing this inequality and living within this system, we have to understand that there is some creator of this system, who is beyond this system, who is up there. There is God who created this whole system.
And actually when we try to say that everything is equal, it's tantamount of saying that there is no God.
That's basically what we want to say by trying to just consistently, that's the gist of modern atheistic culture to say that there is no God. Everyone is equal. Everyone is equal.
This motto is there and it's totally atheistic. This whole democratic idea is an atheistic idea. To deny, to disprove, to basically overthrow the natural hierarchical system.
So the much more proper understanding which will give us actually proper intelligence to act and to live in this world properly is to recognize this and to understand that somebody has created the system and we should be serving this system.
So now that's Śrīla Prabhupāda's explanation and the conclusion.
Three levels of sensory perception
Now, Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura gives a completely different explanation, which is extremely beautiful. I don't know if you're still capable of uh listening and comprehending listening you can do, that's not a problem.
What about hearing? So uh if it's still possible I can uh plunge into it. Uh it's again the verse is enigmatic. It's uh it's not an easy verse.
Again, uh first it is said here that adhyātmalika and adhidaivika are the same. But they are distinguished uh on the level of adhibhautika.
So uh mm uh uh Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura gives different interpretations to these terms. Very vag not vāg, but very universal philosophic terms which are used again and again and again in the whole Vedanta philosophy.
Adhyātma-puruṣa, adhibhautika-puruṣa and adhidaivika-puruṣa. So he says adhyātma is the subtle sense.
And the most obvious example of we have five senses, but the eyes is the most obvious example of the senses because we use our eyes all the time. So when we study the mechanism of perception through our eyes.
If we are intelligent, we will arrive to a conclusion that it's a very complicated mechanism. And there are three elements, three main elements of this mechanisms are there. One is the gross eye.
You know this, and you know the scientists who study it they say, you know, that's it, we know what vision means.
You know, you have this, you know, thing, gross stuff, which consists of this retina and this and that, so many different elements, and they study it. You know, but you may have completely perfect thing.
You know, take it out from the body, and will it see anything? No, it will not see. And even in the body, sometimes it may be completely perfect, but it doesn't see anything.
So they are just studying the mechanical process, which is only part of perception. They are not really understanding the mechanism of perception. The mechanisms of perception is explained in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.
And it is said there that the gross thing which we see and which we call eye or vision has the subtle element which is called sense.
The sense, according to philosophy of Bhagavata, is the subtle thing which is the ability to see through this eye.
Like, you know you may have uh the car, but the car itself uh is completely useless. It cannot move itself. You know, of course now there is this, you know, Tesla cars. They supposedly can move without any driver.
But still, uh, you know, why they can drive without driver? Because there is subtle thing. The program, the subtle program is there. So that's exactly what's going on in our vision. There is gross eye.
There is subtle sense which gives us ability to see. So the gross eye is called adhiboutika. That's the matter. The subtle sense is called adhyatmika which is the ability to see within the eye which makes eye functional
and But even this is not enough. You know, we with our materialistic training would say, okay, fine, I I accept this, but that's enough. No, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam says, no, no, no, no.
You cannot see without the Deva, without the subtle being who controls your eye. The sun god is the controller of your eye and the amsha of Sun God is there facilitating this vision process.
So the vision process starts with the with the grossing gross eye which is there, and then the light of sun god falls into the gross eye, the subtle sense register the gross, the subtle sense is basically this informational mechanism which more or less gets the information from the gross image which is there in our eye.
And then there is a sun god which facilitates this process.
So so the verse literally says, please listen, I I you probably already bewildered as much as material scientists are, but uh it's interesting. The conclusion will be very interesting.
So the process is like this: there is grossing, the light of the sun, which facilitates our vision, which actually controls our vision.
Without sun, we would not be able to see even though the senses would be there and the eye would be there. Then the grossing is taking the light from
the sun, the subtle sense gets this information, converts it into a vision, and then but the subtle sense can only convert this into an image, which is the in our brain, you know, in some some portion of our brain we have this center of vision within our brain.
But then you know the sun facilitates this process, sun uh uh gives us this ability ultimately.
And this three thing what is written here in this verse: the gross thing, subtle thing, and the controlling deity, they are the same. In a sense, they are interdependent.
This whole mechanism will not work if one of these elements is missing. So that's what is written here. They are interdependent.
You know the the subtle sense and the controlling deity as it is written here they are the same in the sense that they have the same nature.
Like how to explain this you know if we want to train our vision then to train our vision we have to take uh substances which are similar to uh which have strong presence of the sun. Like ghee is very good.
The best medicine for the eye is ghee. If you have serious disease, you go to Ayurvedic Clinic, they will put some medicated ghee in your eye and it's it's horrible.
But then immediately after that you are capable of you are able to see much better than before, much more clearly.
So, all the nature of the subtle sense and the gross sense as well, they are of the same nature as Sun God.
So every substance which has the same nature will facilitate our vision because this is how Sun God facilitates or controls our vision.
You know, and also people say that if you want to improve your vision, you have to look at this candle.
You know, and you should concentrate candle this trataka or you should look at the sun and when it's still very low in the horizon, and by this you improve your vision.
This is how Sun God with the sunlight controls our vision. And literally, what is said here is that the nature of the subtle sense and the controlling deity they have the same nature.
Therefore, it is said they're the same, but they're being distinguished when it comes to the gross level. When it comes to the level of Adibautika, of our gross eyes, then the distinction is there.
But uh the implication here, please listen. The implication here is that the process of perception through eyes is only possible when all three elements are functioning.
You know, if you don't have gross physical eye, you will not be able to see. Even though the subtle sense is there, the sun god is there, you know, there is no eyes. There is no mechanism.
If somehow rather the subtle sense is impaired, you know according to your karma, some people are born with completely okay eyes and still they cannot see. Because something is wrong with the subtle sense.
It's not there, the ability is not there. And of course, if the sun god is not there, if uh not nourished by the sun rays and the light which is coming to our eyes, the vision is not possible.
So they are interdependent to facilitate the mechanism of vision.
Function of the witnessing soul
But what is the implication? The implication is that there is somebody else who is using this mechanism. Because they are interdependent, they are sheltered in somebody else.
Jiva, soul, the perceiver, the witness, the somebody who is there must be there. Otherwise, this mechanical process of this interdependent uh entities uh will not culminate into understanding I see something. You know.
I look at somebody, I look at nāma-sāṅkīrtana and I say, I see nāma-sāṅkīrtana. Who says this? Does it. Gross eye says that I see? Gross eye doesn't see.
Gross eye cannot see, you know, as much as this, you know, this this flesh cannot smell. You know, can the flesh smell? You know, you you cut it off. Will it smell? No, it cannot smell.
The eye, if you take it out, cannot see Nam Sankirtan. As beautiful as he is, the eye will not be able to see him.
Sangout doesn't see, Nam sankīrtana. It's jīva the soul interprets and gets the information through this process. jīva the soul is the beneficiary of this process because it's independent of this process.
These three things are dependent on each other, cannot exist without each other, but there should be an independent entity which is using this mechanism to interpret and to behave in a certain way.
So it's jīva, it's me, it's ātmā who is seeing, not the subtle sense, not the controlling deity, not the gross element, not the gross manifestation of this, but me who is getting this information within my brain, seeing this, watching it, and deciding what to do next.
Whether I want to punch nāma-saṅkīrtana or I want to embrace him. That's the decision of ātmā the soul. So what is being said here that the whole mechanism of material creation is dependent on the witness of
ātmā who is capable of perceiving because he is independent of this mechanism. A conscious living entity. That's exactly what quantum mechanics says.
That the processes which are taking place in this material creation are dependent on the witness.
And if the witness is not there, you know, the processes are not really, they may not even take place or, they may be different, you know, the consciousness, which is different element, independent of the system.
Basically, that's the idea, that's the main point which Śukadeva Gosvāmī is making here. Consciousness is independent of the material mechanism of creation.
When we're talking about creation, we have to understand there is a distinct element which is the barrier or carrier of this consciousness,
uh, somebody who bears the consciousness, this is ātmā, who is witness, who is seeing this beautiful cinema of the material world in the cinema theater of his mind? So that's what it is, but that's not the end.
That's the implication of this verse, but then you know we can also understand that who facilitates the vision of this little puruṣa? This process is a mechanical process. There is nobody who is conscious there.
There should be conscious entity to take advantage of this beautiful creation.
But this living little living entity, tiny jīva, didn't create the system and cannot really take advantage fully of this, can take advantage of the system but he has to understand that his uh uh in turn is dependent on the Supreme Purusha.
We are, you know, there is this mechanism of creation.
There is little tiny particle of consciousness which is taking advantage by knowing or enjoying or interacting with this creation, but in turn, we are completely dependent on God. He is the supreme shelter.
And He is not, Paramātmā is the shelter, and therefore Prabhupāda starts this verse by quoting Bhagavad-gītā, saying that Paramātmā is present and he is the ultimate facilitator of everything which is going on in this material world.
He is pervading everything. He is making possible for us to be here, making possible for us to enjoy this material world, arranging everything and facilitating this process.
Line of dependence leading to Krishna
Because you know this whole thing which we see uh is um is I'll come to very important conclusion very soon but uh the whole idea here is to explain the line of dependence.
Adhibautica, for its functioning, is dependent on Adhyatmika. Adhijatmika on its function is dependent on Adhaivika. Adhaivika on its function is dependent on Jiva. Jiva on its function, Jiva because they are all amshas.
Jiva is the amsha. Jiva is higher than this whole mechanism, material mechanism. But jiva is also Amsha. Jiva is Amsha of whom? Paramatma. Jiva is Amsha of Paramatma. Is little part, therefore Jiva is dependent on Paramatma.
But Paramatma is Amsha of whom? Paramatma. Of Bhagavan, of Krishna. And that's exactly what Krishna says here. Vistabya Hammedam Krishna Mekam Senas Tito Jagat. I am pervading this whole Jagat by little Amsha of mine.
Paramatma is Amsha of Bhagavan, Bhagavan is whom? Is Krishna. Krishna is the shelter of everything. So that's the ultimate conclusion of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.
Krishna, who is a little coward boy, who is going and you know, coming to Mother Yaśodā and saying, Will you give me some food today to eat? You know, this little boy who is begging to the wives of brāhmaṇas and begging of his girlfriends to give him little laugh uh and sometimes boiling down to him this Krishna is the shelter of everything.
Everything is hum show, famshow, famshow, famshow. Everything which we see. And this is the idea. How we should understand. This is the logical proof.
You know, we enjoy receiving this world. We enjoy interacting with this world. We are under this illusion that I can know this world independently.
But this whole process is all dependent on Paramatma, and Paramatma is ultimately a tiny little portion of the supreme personality of Godhead who is the supreme enjoyer and who is described in the Tenth Canto.
So this whole understanding of Sarga, mechanism of creation, the thing which is there, which we see, is ultimately there to facilitate our understanding who Krishna is, how great Krishna is.
How great he is by making himself so accessible to us and so lovable. But before we understand and appreciate his loving nature and his beauty and his accessibility, we have to understand his greatness.
And to understand his greatness, we have to understand the mechanism of creation, which is not simple and understand it in the proper way by seeing the hierarchical structure in the creation, seeing what is higher and what is lower.
So here is the very beginning, the general blueprint of this hierarchical nature.
Ādibhautika is the process level, Ādhyātmika is the next level, Āhidaivika is the next level, then Jīva is the fourth level, Paramātmā is the fifth level, Bhagavān is the sixth level.
So that's the whole design of the creation. And that is what is being described in this verse and in the next verse.
How the processes are not complete without the Supreme Controller and how they will not take place if the Supreme Controller if we suppose that Supreme Controller is not there. Nothing would work.
The supreme controller, the presence of supreme control, should be concluded from seeing what we see. It can only function because the Supreme Controller is there.
If we remove him from the picture, even though it looks like he's not there and he's not directly involved, he is involved. He is involved. He is in the heart of everyone. And believe it or not, he is in our heart as well.
So that's the conclusion of this verse of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, which is not easy to understand. Thank you very much, Hare Krishna. Yes. ...coda gdzie tam. Procts 20, 18.,-2. Tohnki process, and.
Modern science versus Vedic knowledge
Oh, sorry. So how to understand this uh the process of um cloning and uh another kind of um Artificial dissemination dissemination fertilization. Um behind the growth
processes there is always samtel process which is basikally the exchange of informationik in computer, we can clearly see it.
There is this grosing which will not work if there is no you know more subtle information process which is taking place. So science is only manipulating the existing mechanisms.
Science cannot create anything new, it can only manipulate it uh and uh usually not in a very you know good way, but it it just manipulates the system which is there, which is created by God.
Scientists didn't invent anything. They're trying, you know, they're trying to and they're good at imit not imitating but reproducing the processes which are already taking place in nature.
They are studying these processes and then reproducing them in more artificial conditions. Nothing else than this. The mechanism they're not creating. You know, even this, you know, computers, what is this?
This is just a manifestation of you know their understanding of the processes which are taking place in the brain. And what is artificial intelligence? It's nothing but det reased how the mankanism
avrin or vår mind is länning things and therefore this neural uh networks is being created.
They're just reproducing the existing mechanisms. You know. If they would invent themselves, no, they they looked what is going on here and then they reproduced this there. But that's the same stuff. Nothing new.
Nothing special. You know, it's like this. This beautiful example. When the dog is barking, nobody is very much impressed. But when an artist on the stage starts barking exactly like the dog, everyone is so impressed.
Oh yeah, oh he barks so nicely. So the same way when this thing is taking place naturally, nobody is impressed. But when the scientists start doing this in their lab, they say, oh, such a big achievement.
It's just barking of the human being on the stage. You know, nobody says to the dog, oh, you're barking so nicely. No. So that's what it is. Nothing else. Human beings are only as good as they can.
The nature, they can't try inventing new. Somebody say that, that need scientists. But all the detailed
studies like that that's the uncovering a lot of knowledge that seemed is not in the Vedic scriptures like such as you know the atomic models and nuclear physics or uh knowledge of DNA and biochemistry and so on.
What I mean, so why is that not included in the Vedas or something? Because Vedic system of knowledge is completely different. Vedic system of knowledge, uh, is
giving you the holistic picture of the reality without bewildering you with all these details, because these details are the result of passionate intelligence.
When the intelligence is driven by the mode of passion, then this passionate intelligence will analyze in minute details the reality and in the process of analyzing
Passionate analysis versus holistic science
the reality in minute details, it will become completely bewildered by all these little details as they say they will not see the forest behind the trees. They will see the trees, they will see the things, but they forget about the forest.
So the modern science is the creation of rajoguna, of mode of passion.
The Vedic science is the creation of sattvaguna. Sattvaguna seeks synthesis, not analysis. Sattva Gun synthesizes things and gives the complete holistic picture of reality.
And this holistic picture of reality has not less has not less predictive power. Actually the measurement of the good theory in science is its predictive power.
If any theory of reality can predict something, then it's a good theory. And how accurately can it predict, and what are the far fetched predictions could be. That's the measurement of the good theory.
So Vedic theory from this point of view is a perfect theory because it has so many it has such powerful, you know, it's a very powerful instrument.
You know, even, but they're not, because it's holistic, uh, they're not really using the mathematics as its instrument. Mathematics is necessary when you try to dissect everything.
When you try to cut down everything to pieces and then you know you operate with all these little pieces and then you try to again reproduce how the whole will function, but you you will never be able to see the whole because you already cut the reality into pieces.
So the very simple example is Ayurved. Ayurved doesn't say anything about DNA, Ayurveda doesn't say anything about all these different toxins, doesn't study the nature of this toxin or that toxin. Ayurveda says Ama.
Ama means all the toxins, you eat some food, whatever is not digested is ama.
Ayurveda doesn't care, you know, what is this polyphenol or you know, is it fatty nature or is it fatty acid or this and that? Couldn't care less. It knows that there is a product of indigestion
and this is the product which clogs your śrotas. And this is how the disease comes into being. You know, there is ama.
And you know, by knowing this simple process which doesn't have all these complicated bombastic names, polyphenol, you know, uh fatty acids, this and that, you know, and God knows. You know, by knowing this simple process, uh you have the universal tool of how to treat all the diseases.
You know how disease originates, how you know according to the unique uh constitution of your śrotas, your channels, this ama clogs them, you know. Somebody is clogged in arteries, somebody is clogged in the, anyway, it's uh it's it's still quite complicated, but it gives you picture and gives you a very powerful tool how to treat diseases without being completely bewildered uh in this process.
Because the scientists they study the same thing, ultimately the same thing.
But you know, because there are so many categories and nobody can know everything, so they, you know, ultimately they became the very narrow specialist and uh you know there are specialists, you know, there are so many parts in the ear.
You know, before that there was only uh somebody who is the specialist on the ear and knows.
Now you it's only the specialist of the ear, but even the specialist of the ear can still because he doesn't know everything about the ear, he knows only something about what is inside the ear, and if your disease is outside, then
he cannot say this, and you have to go to another specialist, and then you know the left ear is different from right ear, and you have to study it differently, and you have to treat it differently.
So, this is the absurd of the modern science by this methodology. The sattvic science of Vedas try to see the forest. And always keep the forest that the picture of this.
And moreover, to understand the dependence of everything on God. And but it has very powerful tools, not less powerful, much more powerful actually. Unfortunately, it's lost to a greater extent.
Challenges of applying Ayurveda today
But as far as the theory is concerned, it's beautiful and that there's yeah. Marsh according to our weather, you said that this is once you said that this is very good, but it doesn't work our days.
It doesn't work because the herbs are not powerful because the processes. because it's subtle.
You know, the subtle things don't work uh in this gross age of Kali Yuga because uh it's just too subtle and everything is gross. You know, our diseases are very gross.
And you know, to prepare the proper medicine you have to in Ayurveda, you have to harvest the herb in the proper season, you have to do it with certain consciousness and so many subtleties are there.
You know, like I was in Ayurvedic clinic and they produce one medicine, it takes them. And that's not the longest one. 47 days to produce the medicine. Just, you know. 47 days is just to mix.
And there's one lady sitting there.
And the doctor said, when you do this procedure according to the scriptures, you know, you have to do it again and again and again. Then at one level the whole structure becomes so subtle, then the consciousness of somebody who is doing this goes into it.
And they said that the most difficult part of our uh producing this medicine
is to find people who will be for 48 days mixing this and at the same time having good consciousness so that not Rajasi Kotamasy consciousness would enter this medicine. So they say this is the most difficult part.
We really first we uh take a person and we observe him, giving him some or her some simple procedures, and then we see how sattvic he is, how how peaceful he is.
And then only you know very selected people they are able to do this. So who will do this? You know, there are few people who are still doing this, but you know, if if you need
to compete, you have to produce, you know uh Daburchiavan Prash and put it with you know two hundred rutus per bottle, you know. It's just it's it's a joke.
You know it will become very expensive because you know for for one little medicine you have to do so much labor. I was in another clinic. The doctor there says that easily uh to produce one medicine may take one year.
From the beginning to end. Sometimes three years. He is producing medicines on the basis of mercury.
And mercury is a very powerful thing, but it's a very complicated thing because you have to, you know, through different procedures, you have to remove the poisonous element from mercury.
So and they're working and I saw these ladies who are mixing this mercury with herbs. And you know it's many, many rounds of it. So who will do it? Where where you find?
Especially if you take this Dabur medicine, okay, you know. Maybe some of them work just as an exception. Because again, uh, you know, there is a simple theory, but uh we have to respect the complexity of reality too.
And the complexity of reality is being respected by this complexity of the or subtlety of the procedures which are involved.
But we can appreciate the beauty of the whole theory, like you know, simple theory of uh three modes of material nature, how powerful it is.
You know, you can you can immediately, you know, somebody who knows nothing can read about this and understand, yeah, that's fine, yeah. That's now now I can understand what I should eat, what I should not eat.
And uh, you know, how I should behave myself. It's it's such a simple thing, you know, but at the same time it's so deep and so subtle. You know, so that's that's that's the problem with Vedic science.
Yeah, it doesn't work. Or, you know, astrology, it doesn't really work in reality. Why? Because it's too subtle. You know, something is much grosser is necessary, you know.
When when there is no subtle mechanism, then the only uh mechanism which works as a hammer. That works, you know. You take the hammer of allopatic medicine and say. Oh, very good works.
Influence of consciousness on matter
Mahrage, we're gonna stay instructium, and if we're gonna nevident realisti. A's he's gonna glass, to earn this user, is minia, at So what's the question?
The question is, can ātmā change the reality? Because I mentioned this on the uncertainty effect of Schrödinger, where witness can influence the reality.
Yeah, the only thing which is there, which we can say with all certainty, is that witness can influence matter. Consciousness can influence matter. That much we can say. And there is plenty of scientific data on this.
You know, there is some some machine which is making uh some uh completely random thing.
You know, for example, machine uh gives you numbers. There is a program in your computer, and this program is fleshing out on the screen random numbers. And you sit there.
And the program is totally it's designed to give numbers completely randomly. So according to this program, the uh the number of uh odd numbers and odd and uh even numbers should be the same.
If if you sit long enough, you know there will be uh odd uh figures and uh even figures, inequal numbers. Inequal, yeah.
So but if you sit there and if you try to meditate and you say, I want that even numbers would be more.
Lo and behold, after long enough, this result will be statistically proven that you, by your consciousness, influence this completely dull and gross machine, and the program which is there.
There's plenty of these experiments how consciousness influenced the matter. Even though he's not supposed to, because the matter is supposed to work on its own accord, right? But consciousness, the observer, is influencing the results of these mechanical processes which are taking place in reality.
So, yes, we are influencing reality, but we are being influenced by the Supreme, by Paramātmā as in our heart and the Supreme Lord is controlling everything ultimately. And there's plenty of these things.
You know how there is very small but tangible effect of the influence of consciousness on matter. And you know, the best example and the most common example is the influence of placebo.
Placebo means you take some calcium CO2 and some chalk basically and somebody tells you, oh, this is the most powerful medicine uh in the creation, which is newly invented, and we're giving it to you.
And you, mm, believe this, and lo and behold, the mechanical processes within your body change. And disease is being cured by the consciousness, by your conscious belief that this useless is the most powerful medicine.
So yes, the witness can influence the reality. Okay Okay. Thank you very much, Hare Krishna. Śrīla Prabhupāda kī jaya.