A Structural Review of the Main Topics of Srimad-Bhagavatam. Lecture 10

0:00Om namo bhagavate vāsudevāya, oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya, oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. Nārāyaṇaṁ namaskṛtya, naraṁ caiva narottamam, devīṁ sarasvīṁ vāsaṁ tato jayam udīrayet.

0:51Naṣṭa-prāyeṣv abhadrēṣu nityaṁ bhāgavata-sevayā, bhagavaty uttama-śloke bhaktir bhavati naiṣṭhikī.

1:17yam pravrajantam anupetam apeta-kṛtyaṁ dvaipāyano viraha-kātara ājuhāva, putreti tan-mayatayā taravo 'bhinedus taṁ sarva-bhūta-hṛdayaṁ munim nato 'smi. Hare

Understanding absolute truth through love

1:36Krishna, dear devotees, attendees of this series of classes about the structural review of the topics of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. And I want to remind you the main idea of this classes.

1:56We're trying to understand in a very general way how different subject matters described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, serve the ultimate purpose explaining the nature of the absolute truths.

2:19And how without understanding these topics we will never be able to properly understand the absolute truth. The voice is not very clear today. I don't know. I don't know what to do about this. It's no one sending.

2:45The volume is low, yeah. Is it better now? It's fantastic. Okay, was very simple. Okay, so as I explained before,

3:05we are trying to understand the different topics described in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam in connection with the main topic which is the nature of the absolute truth.

3:15And Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is designed in a very special way facilitating us to understand the absolute truths, even though it's virtually impossible.

3:28The absolute truth is totally transcendental, it's a adokṣaja. So how can we understand the absolute truth? There is only one way to understand the absolute truth. This is love.

3:42Love transcends the limitation of human intelligence. Otherwise, in our attempts to understand the absolute truth, we will always be baffled. We will never be able to understand it properly.

3:58And that's what we see in the history of religion.

4:02People, they have certain conception of the absolute truth, but oftentimes it's very caricature because they're applying the imperfect intelligence to understand the absolute truth as and the result is less than satisfying.

4:21So Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is removing certain obstacles from within our heart, clearing the space within our heart which will enable us to develop attachment to the Supreme Lord, the Supreme Absolute Truth.

4:41And by this attachment of which is called love, we will be able to understand the Supreme Truth. But before, these obstacles have to be removed.

4:54So the nine cantos of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, preparing us to the culmination of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, the essence of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

5:06Nārada Muni told Vyāsadeva you didn't describe properly the pastimes of Lord Krishna, even though pastimes of Lord Krishna are described in all the Puranas.

5:18Krishna-kathā and Rāma-kathā, Rāmāyaṇa and Krishna-līlā are described practically in all the Puranas. Nevertheless, Nārada Muni said, you didn't describe them properly. What does it mean properly?

5:32Properly means in such a way that the readers or listeners will be able to understand these pastimes.

5:43Otherwise, we will hear these pastimes and then we will have some perverted reflection within our mind, then some, you know, some whatever, whatever reflection.

5:55Usually people think that impersonal absolute comes as Krishna and performs his pastimes because you know people need some entertainment and they are bored in meditating on the impersonal Brahman.

6:10So in between the meditation when they are bored, they should hear some pastimes. Or something like this. They have different conceptions, different ideas.

6:22They don't understand this that these pastimes are the very essence of the supreme Absolute Truth. That this is the manifestation of the internal nature of the Supreme Absolute Truth

6:35and how this internal nature, which is complete love or uh love manifests through these pastimes.

Review of earlier Bhagavatam cantos

6:45Anyway, so that's that's what it means to describe Lord's pastimes properly in a proper sequence, preparing us to understand them in the real sense of this world.

7:04So we already explained the topic of the first Kanto very important adhikāra-tattva second Kanto which describes different sādhanas how people with different adhikāra or different qualifications can perform different practices.

7:24And then a third and fourth canto, basically, according are described in a chronological order, atra sarga visarga ca sthānaṁ poṣaṇam ūtayaḥ. posanamuthaya. They describe Sarga and Visarga, and basically, they describe Sarga:

7:51it's a primary creation, but it's also the creation of the primary impetus within the heart. And the primary, the root impetus within the heart of every living entity is the desire to enjoy.

8:09So on the third canto describes how this desire to enjoy material nature manifest in living entity and how we can curb this desire.

8:20How this the spirit of exploitation of material energy can be clarified from our heart, can be washed away from our heart.

8:33And the fourth scanto, as we described last time in the lecture, is explaining the other problem when people try to enjoy in a more subtle way, in a Vedic way.

8:51All these subtle Vedic sciences are there and people foolishly think that this is to facilitate their enjoyment. So they they are not gross exploiters of the material nature. But they are subtly doing the same.

9:11And therefore, very important quality appears within the heart which is pride. We were talking last time that the pride is the by-product of this Vedic way of life.

9:28And therefore there are so many instances in the fourth canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam which describes different kinds of of offenses.

9:41So that's also one of the most important topics of the fourth Kant of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam to warn us again against offenses which are born from our pride and create some humility in us.

10:00So we are coming to the third topic of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam according to the consequential order of the structure of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam that is Stanam. And the main place where this topic is being revealed

10:21in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, even though this topic is all over the place, everywhere. But the main canto where it is revealed is the fifth canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. So today I will try to give a short essential

Reading on the varnasrama system

10:40review of the themes of the fifth canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and how the fifth canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam serves the ultimate purpose of the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. But before starting this, I will read a verse from

11:01the fifth cant of Śrīmad-Bhāgavat from the first chapter and wonderful purport by Śrīla Prabhupāda, which may be a little long, two pages long, but nevertheless it's very important.

11:16So this is the text number, verse number 14 from the first Kent of Shimad of First Chapter of the fifth cant of Shimad Bhagavatam, the activities of Maharaja Priyavrata.

11:30Yadvachitantyam Gunakarma Dama Bhik Sudustarair Vatsavayam su Yojitaha. Sarve Vahamo Balim Ishwaraya prota nasiva dripadecha Tushpadaha. Very beautiful verse My dear boy Vatsa,

11:53all of us abound by the Vedic injunctions to the divisions of Varnashrama according to our qualities and work. These divisions are difficult to avoid because they are scientifically arranged.

12:13Sudustarayam Syoj Yadvachi Tantiam Guna Karma Dama Bih. We are all tied by these ropes of guna and karma. We all are not free even though we have an illusion that we are free.

12:30But the ropes of Guna and Karma very tightly bind us in this material world. And therefore, we should follow Sudhustaraivatsawayam Suyojita, scientifically arranged the system given by the Supreme Lord. Yadvachi.

12:50Yadvachi means from the very construction. So we must therefore carry out our duties of our Nasha Madharma like bulls obliged to move according to the direction of a driver pulling on ropes not their noses.

13:13In a traditional vedik system there is a rope and the noise, you know, bulls are quite insensitive animals, but they have very sensitive part, this is their nose. So the drivers of these bulls, they put the rope there.

13:34And if the bull goes little away from the proper path, they pull the ropes. And the bull feeling the pain, impossible pain, goes back to his path.

13:53So purport by his divine grace, say bhaktividanta swami, sila Prabhupada Kijaya. In this verse, the words Tantiam, Guna Karma, Dhamma Bh are very important.

14:06We each get a body according to our association with the gunas, the qualities or modes of material nature, and react accordingly.

14:15As stated in Bhagavad-gītā, the four orders of the social system, namely brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, वैшья and śūdra, are arranged according to guna and karma, their qualities and work.

14:29There is some controversy about this, however, because some say that since one receives the body according to the guna and karma of his past life, it is one's birth that determines his social status.

14:48Others say, however, that one's birth according to guna and karma of his past life is not essential is not the essential consideration since one can change his guna and karma even in this life.

15:03Thus, they say that the four divisions of the social order, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, and śūdra, should be arranged according to the guṇa and karma of this life.

15:14This version is confirmed in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam by Nārada Muni in the seventh canto.

15:21While instructing Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira about the symptoms of guṇa and karma, Nārada Muni said that these symptoms must govern the division of society.

15:31In other words, if a person born in a family of a brāhmaṇa has the symptoms of a śūdra, he should be designated as a śūdra. Similarly, if a śūdra has brāhmaṇical qualities. The

15:45varṇāśrama system is scientific, suyogyataḥ. Suyogyataḥ literally means very beautifully and intelligently designed.

15:57Therefore, if we accept the divisions of varṇa and āśrama according to the Vedic instructions, our lives, our lives will be successful. Unless human society is thus divided and arranged, it cannot be perfect.

16:14As stated in the Viṣṇu Purāṇa, varṇāśramācāravatā puruṣeṇa paraḥ pumān, viṣṇur ārādhyate. The supreme personality of Godhead Lord Viṣṇu is worshipped by the proper execution of prescribed duties in the system of varṇa and āśrama.

16:32There is no other way to satisfy the Supreme Personality of Godhead. One must be situated in the institution of the four varṇas and āśramas. All of human society is meant to worship Lord Viṣṇu.

16:48At the present moment, however, human society does not know that there is an ultimate goal or perfection of life. Please listen very carefully.

16:57At the present moment, however, human society doesn't know that there is the ultimate goal or perfection of life. Therefore, instead of worshipping Lord Viṣṇu, people have been educated to worship matter.

17:12According to the direction of modern society, men think they can advance in civilization by manipulating matter to build skyscrapers, big roads, automobiles and so on.

17:25Such a civilization must certainly be called materialistic because its people do not know the goal of life.

17:32The goal of life is to reach Viṣṇu, but instead of reaching Viṣṇu, people are bewildered by external manifestation of the material energy and ultimately reach hell.

17:44Śrīla Prabhupāda doesn't write this, but it is written in this fifth canto.

17:51Therefore, progress in the material advancement is blind, and the leaders of such material advancement are also blind, they are leading their followers in a wrong way.

18:03It is best therefore to accept the injunctions of the Vedas which are mentioned in this verse as Yad Vachi. Yadvachi literally means the words of him. In accordance with those instructions, everyone should find out

18:23whether he is a brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya or śūdra, and should thus be educated accordingly, then his life will be successful, otherwise all human society will be confused.

18:35If human society is divided scientifically according to Varna and Ashrama, and if the Vedic directions are followed, one's life, regardless of his position, will be successful.

18:47It is not that brāhmaṇas will be elevated to the transcendental platform, but not the śūdras.

18:54If the Vedic instructions, injunctions are followed, all of them, brāhmaṇas, kṣatriyas, vaiśyas and śūdras, will be elevated to the transcendental platform and their lives will be successful.

19:06The injunctions of the Vedas are explicit directions from the Supreme Personality of Godhead. The example cited in this verse is that bulls tied by ropes to their nostrils move according to the direction of the driver.

19:25Similarly, if we move according to the instructions of the Vedas, the perfect path of our lives will be set.

19:34Otherwise, if we do not move in that way but act according to our whimsical ideas, our lives will be spoiled by confusion and will end in despair. Very strong language Prabhupada uses.

19:51Actually, because people at the present moment are not following the instructions of the Vedas, they are all confused.

19:59We must therefore accept this instruction by Lord Brahmā to Priyavrata as the factual scientific direction leading to the success of life.

20:09This is also confirmed in Bhagavad Gita, Yakshastravidi Mutrija Vartateka Makarataha, Nasasidi Mavapnati, Nasukamna Param Gatim.

20:19If we do not live according to the instructions of the Shastras, the Vedas, we shall never achieve success in life, to say nothing of happiness or elevation in highest statuses of life.

Inner moral law and cosmology

20:34Sila Prabhupada Kijai Namaw Vishnu Padaya Krishna Prysthaya Bhutale Srimati Bhaktividanta Swami Nitnamini Namaste S Raswati Devi, Gauravani Pracharini, Mirvisu Sunavadi Paschatyade Sitari Chaitanya Prabhunitananda Sidvaita Gadat Hara Sivasa Gaura Bhakta Vrinda, Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare Hare Rama Hari Rama Rama Rama Hari Hare Yondah Pradishi Mamavacham Prasuptaam Samzivaya ta kiwa shakti darakswadamna anyamscha hasta charana shramanat bagadim pranannam Bhagavatam Purushay tubyam swasastu vishwasya Kalah prasida tam deyan tu butani sivam mitodia, manascha badramba ja ta doksha jadesh So

21:37we will begin our short and very cursory description of the fifth canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, which is a very important and very essential canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

21:53And I will begin this description with a very unusual quote. I will quote the great German philosopher Emmanuel Kant, who said a very famous phrase in his treatise which is called Critique of Practical Intelligence?

22:18He said that there are two things which always inspire great awe and reverence within me, and the more I think of them, the more inspiration I feel. That is the starry heaven over my head and the moral law within.

22:47So, why do I start with this strange and uh apparently irrelevant quote? Because the fifth canto is about these two things the starry heaven above our heads and the moral law within our heart.

23:14And Emmanuel Kant, being a great philosopher, he intuitively understood that this is a crucial topic for any civilized or intelligent human being.

23:30These two topics are crucial for any civilized human being to understand to live the proper life in this world.

23:41So, these two topics: the moral law within and the structure of the universe are the main topics of this fifth canto and they are intimately connected.

24:00And actually, Śrīla Prabhupāda gave great importance to this fifth canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

24:07He actually said that he said to Harikesh Prabhu at that time that he should study this fifth canto and write his own commentaries on the fifth canto, scientifically studying it.

24:23And Śrīla Prabhupāda said to his members of his Bhaktivedanta Institute that they should scientifically study this fifth canto. Because the fifth canto, not the third canto.

24:36Third canto is very important to understand the primary creation, but to understand the mechanics, the gross mechanics of this world, it's very important to be properly situated in this world and in this life.

24:53And he said, you just study this, and this should be the core of our scientific presentation.

25:04And in fact, if we look back in the history of humanity we can see that it is these two topics which can see that it is these two topics which of human civilization in Kali Yuga before Copernicus system was discovered, and before Charles Darwin came up with his brilliant evolution theory.

25:39The human civilization was, or human society was basically God-centered.

25:48But because Copernicus came out with this heliocentric system of the universe, structure of the universe, which we don't really argue with, but there is a very essential change in our understanding of how the universe works.

26:11And before Charles Darwin uh didn't come up with this idea that we ultimately came from from the dirt, uh that the human being is nothing but dirt and, uh, there's nothing really divine in a human being.

26:29Because we just came through the evolutionary process. And amoeba, or whatever, and uh therefore we're not really much better than an amoeba.

26:44In fact, an amoeba must, according to satkārya principle, must contain human beings. Human beings are less than an amoeba because they are the result of an amoeba. An amoeba is more than a human being.

27:00Anyway, so so before these two brilliant discoveries of the modern science, the human society was essentially God-centric. But after that, there was a very you know sharp U-turn in the whole course of human civilization.

27:25And therefore Prabhupāda, he insisted so much, he said that we can change the course of human civilization if we establish these topics which are described in the Fifth Canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam very firmly and scientifically. Try to understand and try to preach this topic.

27:45So therefore, for us also, to be Kṛṣṇa conscious or to be spiritualist, we have to understand this. And we also have to understand the connection.

27:59The connection between these two topics, which I indicated in the beginning: the moral law within and the universe above our head is also very clear.

28:13It's actually in these two topics which I mentioned, two discoveries of the modern science, quote unquote discoveries. It's also like this.

28:28When when uh Charles Darwin uh he didn't say that we we came from monkeys. He only indicated that we came from monkeys. It's it's Aldus Huxley Huxley. He said we came from monkeys.

28:46But basically, it's denying the moral law. When we say that we are product of matter, it basically means that there is no moral law which we should abide.

29:03And you know, first was Darwin, then there was Huxley, his lieutenant, and then there was Freud. And Freud basically he he really put everything in place. And he said: that's it. We are monkeys.

29:22We should behave like monkeys. So, this is the connection. These two topics are connected, and in the course of my description, I will make this connection even more clear.

Lessons from King Priyavrata's life

29:36So, therefore, the first part of this fifth canto from the superficial point of view it continues the visarga part of the fourth canto because it describes the

29:55dynasty of Maharaja Priyavrata, who was the second son of Svayaṁ- bhuva Manu. Svayambhuva Manu had two sons, Maharaja Utanapada. And Maharaja Utanapada, his son was Druva, and his dynasty was described in the fourth Canto.

30:14And in the fifth Canto, the continuation of the same topic about Maharaja Priyavrata, the second son of Svayambhuva Manu.

30:26But immediately from the outset, the tension or the conflict in the very first chapter of the fifth canto is about Maharaja Priyavrata who wants to renounce the world, whereas he is not really ready to renounce the world.

30:49And actually, that's very important for us as Neophyte devotees because as Neophyte devotees, we all experienced, went through, suffered through, and made other suffer through our period of false renunciation.

31:11So, from the other point of view, the topic, the first topic of one of the main topics of the fifth Canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam in connection with this moral law within, in connection with this strict law which we all have to obey, which is ordained by the Lord and which is coming from the Lord through the Vedas, through the words of the Vedas.

31:42So in this connection, the the the the main thing is this uh premature uh renunciation uh you know as beginning devotees we all as I said went through this.

32:01We all just want to jump ahead, jump over our heads, which is not possible. So this fifth Canto is about the false renunciation and the proper renunciation and the consequences of both. Very, very important topic.

32:24And therefore, it starts with this chapter where Maharaja Priyavrata is being preached by Lord Brahmā himself.

32:33And Lord Brahmā in the verse which we read, he says that there is strict laws. And if you follow these laws, you will live comfortably in this life, you will not suffer.

32:45But if you try to deviate from these laws, which are ultimately coming from the Lord Himself, that's that's his manifestation of his own nature. These laws are not artificial. They're natural laws because this is the extension of Lord's nature.

33:07So if we live according to these laws, we will live a comfortable life, we will not feel too much suffering in this material world, we will not end up in the hells. Because ultimately, how let me go a little back,

33:24rewind a little bit, how these two topics are connected, the structure of the universe and the following the laws.

33:33If one follows the laws of material nature, the laws of his own nature, according to his guṇa and karma, then he will be elevated within this universe.

33:46His consciousness will go up and up and up, it will develop, it will bloom. And if one transgresses the laws of material nature, he will be degraded devoluted.

34:04Instead of evolution, there will be devolution of his consciousness and ultimately he will end up in the hell, which will be described in the last chapter of this canto.

34:17So it's a very logical progression from the first canto, which establishes

34:22this topic that we have to follow the strict laws according to our guṇa and karma, according to our psychophysiological makeup, to the last chapter of this canto, which describes the consequences of not following this very strictly, of trying to whimsically avoid.

34:47And in this particular verse, it is beautifully described by this comparison. We are like bulls. We are like bulls. And these laws are like ropes. And as soon as we deviate, we feel pain.

35:03As soon as we deviate, we create havoc around us. We inflict pain to other people.

35:09But if we obediently follow the will of the Lord, which is manifested as these laws of social order, then we will be able to develop internally.

35:24And this internal development with this within this framework of the social arrangement, so to speak, is also described here.

35:36So the neophyte devotee or somebody with very superficial understanding, he tries to externally change his situation. Whereas somebody who is more internal, and this is the teaching of the Fifth Canto.

35:53The teachings of the Fifth Canto is to impress upon us as dull as we are that if we follow the rules and regulations of our varṇāśrama, of our nature. If I'm you know male, I have to behave like a male. If I'm female, I have to behave like a female.

36:16And not something like, you know, if I am brahmacārī, I have to behave as a brahmacārī, if I am gṛhastha, I have to behave as a gṛhastha. And there is no tatastha ashram. You know, some people they want to be tatastha.

36:30Little bit Brahmacharya, little bit grihasta, you know, to get the best of all worlds. You know, so there is not atasta. if if uh uh because uh if if

36:48we situate it properly, that's sthānaṁ, that's the third topic of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Sthānaṁ, sthānaṁ means, as I explained, boundaries.

36:58Sthito sthītaṁ, śritaṁ tan-mūna-manobhir. Just stay in your place, don't change your place externally and try to develop internally. As Prabhupada explains in this purport.

37:11In this purport, he says that there is no, you know, there is no bar for śūdras to go back home, back to Godhead. Anyone can go back to, back to Godhead. There is no restrictions in this regard.

37:24If he understands, externally I have to be situated in my proper place. Sthito sthītaṁ. Śruti-gataṁ tan-mūna-manobhir.

37:34Internally I have to develop by listening the topics of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and by trying to understand ultimately the tenth canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. So that's the crux of this issue.

37:46Therefore this topic is called sthānaṁ. Sthānaṁ basically means boundaries. And boundaries means many things. Boundaries means internal boundaries. The internal boundaries is this moral law within.

38:07Because when we transgress this moral law, we transgress these boundaries, we immediately feel pain.

38:14We immediately feel the you know now conscious uh becomes uh you know inflicted and uh affected by this and we will we feel pain. You know, if we transgress this moral law within. Externally, there is also boundaries.

38:36And these boundaries are manifested in this universe as different planetary system.

38:42As I explained in the beginning, when we uh in a very general way uh described this ten topics of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, I explained that basically the third topic of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is that Vaikuṇṭha Vijaya, Vaikuṇṭha Vijaya, the Lord of Vaikuṇṭha, Uparvala, as they say in Hindi uparwala this

39:09Uparvala, the Lord of Vaikuṇṭha, He the supreme, who is above our head, He maintains all the boundaries. He keeps us in the proper place.

39:27And if we try to jump over our head, if we try to change our position prematurely without dissolving it in a very whimsical way instead of evolving we will be devolving. Instead of promotion, we will be demoted.

39:45So that's how it works in this material world. So stanestitam, this stanam means the boundaries. And the Lord Himself maintains the boundaries, therefore, we have to respect these boundaries.

40:01We have to very clearly understand our own boundaries, our own limitation, and act within these boundaries and not try to transgress these boundaries and try to act in a different way, in an artificial way, as is very fashionable in the modern world.

40:22In the modern world there's no boundaries. There is one world as they say, you know, one big village. No boundaries. No nothing so anyone can do anything, you know.

40:38The one who is born as a male can become female and vice versa, and you know, one who is born black, he can become white, you know, as somebody somebody joked about Michael Jackson Jackson that he was born as a black male and became a white female.

41:01But what is the result? Hell. The result is hell. The result is suffering. And God has nothing to do with this directly. You know, He set these boundaries. He said, please respect these boundaries.

41:17Please obey according to the laws which are there. And then you will not suffer. But if you if you wish to transgress these laws, no problem. I created a very special place for you. This is 21 hell.

41:34Beautifully graphically described. So, yeah, this is the place for those who don't respect the boundaries. No problem. You know, we are very liberal.

41:45We can accommodate anyone, those who respect the boundaries and those who don't. There is place for everyone. For them, there is a special place.

41:56So this is this is how the topic of fifth scanto develops and how important for us it is to understand this fifth canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. And we first, of course, have this story about Maharaja Priyavrata who didn't want to enter into the family life because he thought he's more elevated, he's paramahamsa.

42:28And you know, even Nārada Muni was on his side. But then Lord Brahmā himself, but his father, Svāyambhuva Manu, said no, no. He knew his son better.

42:43He said, no, no, you should enter gṛhastha life and you should enjoy life. And in the meantime, develop internally. So this is one example.

42:54The first example in this fifth canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, how Maharaja Priyavrata ruled. And he became so powerful. And that's amazing. That's one of the side effects of following the rules and regulations.

43:13If you follow the rules and regulations, your power will increase, your influence will increase. If you don't try to artificially transgress it.

43:23But vice versa, if you try to artificially transgress it, your sphere of influence will shrink. It will become less and less and less. And you will become good for nothing. You will become totally useless human beings.

43:40But if you strictly and humbly obey to this laws of material nature, set up by the Lord Himself and therefore the divine laws, then you will gradually, gradually increase your power.

43:55And Maharaja Priyavrata became so powerful. And but uh it's very important to understand the irony of this. Because in the beginning is said it is said that Maharaja Priyavrata was a pure devotee,

44:10he didn't need to go to gṛhastha life, he wanted just he wanted to become a brahmacārī to remain in brahmacārī. He was so inspired.

44:18And then all of a sudden he you know he obeyed the order of Lord Brahmā, he marries his wife, and all of a sudden it is explained how he was attached to his wife. Because he was attached.

44:32Even though artificially in the beginning he saw that I'm more advanced, I don't need it, I don't have to go through it, but ultimately this attachment was there, and it was much more proper for him to go through it.

44:50And therefore, his name is Priyavrata. Priyavrata means that there may be different translations of this word. Priyavrata means that he is, you know, strictly he's very loyal to his wife. Priya.

45:06He uh he is uh he's obedient to his wife. Uh it also means that he follows the this uh this very pleasant vratas of gṛhastha life. He strictly obeys to the rules and regulations of gṛhastha life.

45:25Whatever translation may be there. But ultimately, you know, he of course feels dissatisfaction and renounces this world.

Attraction and attachment of Agnidhra

45:37And right after that, it's a very interesting story. In the second chapter of the fifth canto, the story of one of his sons, Maharaja Agnigdra, is being described. And his son, it's a comp completely different story.

45:55His son didn't want liberation. He wanted to go to hellish planet actually. Because Pitṛloka, well, sometimes it is said that it is heavenly planet, but sometimes it is said it is hellish planet.

46:12He wanted to go to Pitṛloka and live there due to his undue attachment. The essence of the fifth canto: you follow your nature and gradually you will be able to elevate spiritually.

46:33But if you develop either undue detachment or undue attachment. Both are bad. Both undue detachment and undue attachment, artificial detachment and attachment are all bad. Ultimately you will be, you will go down.

46:54You will go to Pitṛloka, whatever.

46:57And it is a very beautiful second chapter, which is almost like you know, it's very unusual to read the second chapter and to hear the second chapter from the mouth of Śukadeva Gosvāmī, because this basically the bulk of the second chapter of the fifth canto is Mahārāja Āgnīdhra is trying to seduce Pūrvacitti, the Apsarā, who came to seduce him.

47:27So basically this second chapter is how the man, the male and female are trying to seduce each other and how he's flattering her and how she's behaving.

47:41It's a it's a funny kind of story which is unfortunately describes our situation in this material world. And it contains very valuable lessons for every one of us. So this is not the essence of life.

48:00The essence of life is to follow the strict rules which are set, the boundaries which are set by the Lord of Vaikuṇṭha.

48:11But another, of course, explanation of this Vaikuṇṭha-vijaya, this third topic, is that if one is a devotee, then the Lord who is Vaikuṇṭha-vijaya, He will never forget His devotee.

48:29Even if one somehow or other transgresses the transgresses the rules of uh of uh moral behavior, uh still the ro Lord remembers about him and the Lord ultimately will save him. That's the meaning of Vaikuntha Vijaya.

48:46Vaikuṇṭha the Lord and this is of course exemplified in the story of Maharaja Bharata. How Maharaja Bharata, even though there was a temporary, he fell down.

49:01It looks like he fell down, but ultimately even this falling down was for his evolution.

Life and teachings of Rishabhadeva

49:10So if somebody is a devotee, even if he commits a mistake in this past, there is actually no loss if he tries to understand the lessons behind it and go according to these lessons and not to commit the same mistake again.

49:33So and then of course after that, in the third and fourth chapter, there is the description of the appearance of Maharaja Ṛṣabhadeva. Maharaja Nābhi was the son of Agnidhra.

49:49And even though Agnidra was not a very exemplary personality in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, still nevertheless his grandson was Ṛṣabhadeva.

50:04So again, he must be very elevated if his grandson was the supreme personality of Godhead himself. So this description of Ṛṣabhadeva is being given there.

50:22And it's interesting that in the descriptions of Ṛṣabhadeva, the description of his avadhūta life is given. Actually, in two places in this fifth canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, the avadhūta order of life is being described.

50:48Jada Bharata in his next life, Maharaja Bharata became Jaḍa Bharata, and he behaved like an avadhūta.

50:56Avadhūta means literally ava means look down, you know, and dud, dud means is basically transgressing the the very basic rules of the civilized society that is taking bath every day.

51:15Avadhūtas they are not supposed to take bath. And they're doing it purp purposefully. So it is explained that at one point if you follow the rules strictly, you can transgress all those rules.

51:33This is what is exemplified in the life of Ṛṣabhadeva and to a certain extent in the life of Jaḍa Bharata.

51:44You know, so uh that's the rules and regulations are according to your level of uh development of your consciousness.

51:52If your consciousness is uh developed enough, you don't have to follow any rules. And this is what Maharaja Ṛṣabhadeva is being is the example of. But at the same time it's very carefully said by Shukadev Gaswami there

52:10that Maharaja Ṛṣabhadeva when he was urinating and he when he was. It's interesting that Maharaj Ṛṣabhadeva he lived his life in a palace with all his sons a very civilized life, hundred sons, beautiful palace.

52:28And then, you know, all of a sudden he renounces everything. He gives the throne to his elder son, Maharaja Bharata. And he starts living in the same palace but completely naked.

52:42You know, your grandfather all of a sudden decides to take the Awadutra order of life and he lives in the same flat with you, but he goes there naked and he behaves in a very strange way.

53:00And then Maharaja Ṛṣabhadeva, he of course leaves home and he wanders through the villages, and people they deride him and they urinated him. But he himself is so pure, he doesn't he doesn't really notice even it.

53:16And he's so pure that even his stool and urine they smell like flowers. So please don't try to become an avadhūta before your stool smells like roses, you know. If you're not on this level.

53:34So remain in a civilized society and follow the rules and regulations of this of this life. You know, at one point you will be able to do it, no problem. But don't be in a hurry.

Instructions of Rishabhadeva to sons

53:49So, and then, you know, of course, the fifth scanto, I came little ahead of time.

53:56The fifth canto, the fifth chapter of the fifth canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam contains these very beautiful instructions of Maharaja Ṛṣabhadeva to his sons.

54:12And the essence of this description instructions is tapo divyam putrakā yena sattva-śuddhiḥ. That this human life is meant for tapo divyam. The human life is not meant for enjoyment.

54:29The human life is meant for the divine tapasya, for the divine austerity, for the purification. yena sattva-śuddhiḥ. By this we will be able to purify our soul. The human form of life is very important.

54:49Later on, in the second part of this fifth canto, it will be the demigods will be praying to the inhabitants of Bharat Varsha, of our plane of experience. And they will say that you're very fortunate.

55:03Because even though you live such a long short life, extremely short life, within this short life you will be able to fulfill the mission of human life. You will be able to understand everything. You will be able to perform these austerities. And if you understand that these austerities are actually very nice because they're enlivening for the soul.

55:26If we always try to enjoy, it's uh it's uh It's a very burdensome. Those people who try to enjoy, they become so morose and so depressed. That's the side product of the enjoyment, depression, total depression.

55:47But those people who live happily within the boundaries and try to perform appropriate austerities, not the dry austerities, not the austerities outside of the boundaries which are set for them, they become very enlivened and very nice.

56:03And therefore, this is the essence.

56:05He gives very valuable instructions to his sons, which is one of the main topics for the beginner devotees actually, to understand properly these teachings of Lord Ṛṣabhadeva in the fifth chapter of the fifth canto.

56:23And it's also interesting, the next sixth chapter describes how he ended his life, how he was burned in a forest fire.

56:33It is said that the place where he was burned in a forest fire was in Karnataka uh there is still this uh mountain which is called Kulachadri and uh uh it's a very uh the jungle is there very dense jungle is there. So supposedly in this Kulachadri mountain, Rishabhadev was caught by the forest fire and he burnt away.

57:06And Śukadeva Gosvāmī explains that actually by this ending up his life in the forest fire, he set an example for yogis who want to end up this life properly.

Origin of the Jaina faith

57:19And they have to actually burn themselves, not literally, but they burn themselves in the fire of yoga and leave this world without even noticing it, completely indifferent to the needs and pains of material body.

57:37But it's also interesting that one of his sons, Maharaja Arhat, his sons, or his no no, not his sons. One of the kings which saw Maharajarishabadev and was inspired by his example, he started imitating Maharaja Rishabadev.

58:02He saw this extreme renunciation of Maharaja Rishabadev and he created a new religion from the behavior of Maharaja Rishabadev, which has become Jaina religion.

58:17Jaina religion is famous for this extreme renunciation and and social. And Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam condemns this act of Maharaja Arhat saying that this is ultimately atheism.

58:38The essence of the fifth canto, which is sthānaṁ vaikuṇṭha-vijayam, is to understand the supreme personality of Godhead by following vijayam, is to understand the supreme personality of Godhead by following his laws.

58:52And if we reject his laws, even though we reject it, you know, with some ideas or whatever, and externally it is very you know, fake renunciation, it's very, you know, very pure.

59:09Śruti-smṛti-purāṇādi-pañcarātra-vidhiṁ vinā, aikāntiki harer bhaktir utpātāyaiva kalpate. It will only create utpātāyaiva, utpāt. It will only create the chaos in the society.

59:23Śruti-Smṛti-Purāṇādi-Pañcarātra-Vidhim Not Vinā, saha. We should live according to the Śruti-Smṛti-Purāṇādi-Pañcarātra-Vidhi.

59:37We should build our life firmly on this vidhis of the Scriptures and not to transgress it in a whimsical way

59:48as the followers of Mahārāja Ṛṣabhadeva do, even though externally they may seem very renounced, but the goal of their life is to become God. They say that yeah, there is a gradual evolution, and if you become Jaina, you ultimately will become Arhat, and then you ultimately will become God.

1:00:11You will become Nārāyaṇa. And you know, and you will create your own universe and you will become the supreme Nārāyaṇa in this universe. So you will rule this universe and this and that.

1:00:24So those who reject Vedas are Pāṣaṇḍīs, they are nāstikas. Even though whatever, whatever externally or superficially pure life they may live, ultimately it's not beneficial for the soul. It's totally counterproductive.

1:00:46It's very. very degrading for the soul because it creates a very huge pride within. Therefore, humbly we should obey the laws of material nature according to our psychological nature. And therefore, till the 15th chapter,

1:01:09including starting from the chapter 7, the story of Mahārāja Bharata is being described. Very beautiful story of Mahārāja Bharata. By the way, it's also interesting that it is explained that among

1:01:23the 100 sons of Ṛṣabhadeva.

1:01:27Some became brāhmaṇas, some became Vaiśyas, some became sannyāsīs, Renunciates, Navayogendras, the sons of Mahārāja Ṛṣabhadeva, Bharata was Kṣatriya, some were brāhmaṇas, some were even not śūdras, but Vaiśyas, I believe.

1:01:49So uh again uh that's the essence of the fifth canto. That's a very interesting detail of the fifth canto, which proves that this is what the fifth canto is all about.

1:02:02Sthāne sthitaḥ. Remain on your place according to your nature. And Śrīla Prabhupāda explains that there are two different theories how we should follow varṇāśrama.

1:02:14One theory of varṇāśrama is that we strictly obey to the acquired nature from the past life.

1:02:23In another one we should obey or follow the acquired nature, the nature which we developed in this life. Yeah, one is from the past life, another one from this life.

1:02:38But no matter which one we go, we may be elevated uh to a certain extent but we should also respect our nature and uh follow according to our nature and develop internally and that will

King Bharata and the deer

1:02:54be very important teachings of this section of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. How to remain within the boundaries, respect the boundaries, and at the same time develop internally.

1:03:07So the activities of King Bharata is being described how he ruled uh again very properly his uh kingdom which was very huge, and how he performed sacrifices, he did everything, and then ultimately he retired from the family life.

1:03:32So externally it may look like that he did everything properly. He didn't try to jump ahead to jump over his head.

1:03:42He didn't try to transgress the rules, he was ruling properly, he properly renounced his life, he went to the forest, he started living in the forest.

1:03:55But as ācāryas explained, there are different explanations of why did it happen to him? Why all of a sudden this amazing attachment appeared in his heart towards a living creature, little deer which he saved.

1:04:16Some say because even though he lived in a seclusion in renunciation, he. lived in renunciation, he lived proper life, but he didn't have the higher association. That's ācāryas, this is how they explain his fall-down.

1:04:42Even if we do everything properly, we still need some driving force within our life to elevate us. Some elevationist elevation form uh force within our life has to be there because only in

1:05:03this way the following the rules and regulations of varṇāśrama will be useful. Otherwise, it will be useless. You will only acquire pious credits and these pious credits will not really develop your spirituality.

1:05:22So varṇāśrama is designed in a very specific way so that human beings would follow their nature, but at the same time have the facility to associate with those who are higher than them. And that's one of the reasons he didn't have this association.

1:05:44Jīva Gosvāmī gives another explanation, which is also very beautiful and also very instructive.

1:05:50He said that this inordinate attachment which he all of a sudden developed towards this little deer living in the forest, practicing very elevated sadhana, worshipping sun god Surya Narayana on the level of Bhava with the tears on his in his eyes and the hair standing on end, even though he was such an elevated status, all of a sudden this Kama jumped out of his heart.

1:06:21This kama, uh it is clearly said that this kama. It may be not a very you know common way of manifesting kama lust, but nevertheless, his attachment to the deer was lust.

1:06:38And that's another very important little thing I will I will say. But Śrīla Jīva Gosvāmī to finish this topic, he said that this unexpected appearance of the last was in the heart.

1:06:57Very powerful lust was in the heart of Maharaja Bharata, was the result of his previous offense. The offenses, uh, that's that's the problem with the offenses. Offenses have very lasting effect.

1:07:14The effect of the offenses, the samskaras which offense leave within our consciousness are not easily eradicated from our consciousness.

1:07:27And therefore, you know, after so many years of very proper life within the forest and before that very pious life as a king, Maharaj Bharata, according to Jiva Gosvāmī, all of a sudden developed this.

1:07:42Because that's the danger of offense. Offense leave a very, very deep impression. And we have to be always careful and always remorseful,

1:07:55understanding that we uh you know unwillingly committed so many offences and try to uh by the with the tears in our eyes try to wash away the results of these offenses.

1:08:10But very interesting thing I wanted to also mention in this connection: why this varṇāśrama-dharma is so important in connection with this sudden appearance of kama or lust within the heart of Maharaja Bharata.

1:08:29Varnashrama is such a system which helps you to minimize the influence of lust, to overcome lust.

1:08:38If we follow very strictly varṇāśrama system, it is said very clearly here in the fifth canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam that by following the rules of regulations you will gradually become free from the influence of lust.

1:08:51Otherwise, you will remain a victim of lust. And unfortunately, this is what happened with Maharaja Bharata to instruct us. There is nothing wrong with Maharaja Bharata.

1:09:04We should not be condescending when it comes to such an elevated personality, but we have to understand that this is about us. So it's very interesting also, Prabhupada uses this in translation of the fifth canto.

1:09:19I don't remember exactly where, but Prabhupada uses a very beautiful phrase, the society of envy.

1:09:29And it is literally said there that if we want to enjoy in the society by social life, we create around us the society of envy. This is beautiful. This is a very profound concept.

1:09:49We can see around us the people they want to enjoy, they create this society where they can show off how they their opulence and their beauty and their whatever. But that's the society based on envy.

1:10:10And as a result of being a member of this society of envy, society of envy, we suffer. We want to enjoy as a result of it, or to do this in order to do this, we create around us the society of envy.

1:10:28And naturally, we suffer because how we can be happy if we are living among the people who are envious?

1:10:38All the people in the normal society they're envious and they're trying to harm, to inflict pain on each other, and therefore they are suffering. So, therefore, what is varnashama? Varnashama is the society devoid of envy.

1:10:56It's not the society which is divided according to some medieval rules. You know, the details of Dharma can differ greatly. Details of Dharma are different in different areas of even Bharata Varsha in India.

1:11:14In the south, there is one rule of varnashama, in the north, there are other rules of varnashama. But the details, the principle is that that's the society without envy.

1:11:24That's the society where everyone is trying to elevate by serving the Lord and trying to come to the Lord. And sometimes we can see the attempts within our society to build for varnashama.

1:11:40A very, I mean very dangerous attempts I would say. Because people are trying to build this varnashama society without understanding that we first have to uproot the envy.

1:11:58We can only build the proper social structure which will be elevating for the soul, for every member of the society, no matter where they are, if there is no envy in the interaction of the people, otherwise it will be a very Jesuit type of exploitation.

1:12:18It will be exploitation. Brahmanus will exploit others. Kshatrias will exploit others, Vaishas will try to exploit others, Shudras will suffer, ultimately Shudras will create revolution, and they will overthrow Brahmanans

1:12:32and Kshatrias and Vaisas and then they will exploit uh Brahmanas and Vaisus and Kshatrias and rule uh themselves and everything will be hellish.

1:12:43This is what we have seen in Russia and in some other countries, how they do this in China, you know, all this hellish stuff which is going on. Why?

1:12:53Because there was stratification in the society, there was some sort of varnashama,

1:12:59but because this varnashima was not properly built, uh not according to the inner idea of varnashram, where everyone uh has to worship the Supreme Lord and respect others according to their positions.

1:13:14In the proper varnashrama system, the Shudra who is performing his duties is more worshipable than the Brahmana if he is deviating from his duties, even slightly.

1:13:28But in improper varnashrama system or any such varnashrama system or whatever some artificial varnashrama system, there will be always pride. I am Brahman, I am higher than you. Look at my Brahmin thread. Did you see it?

1:13:47Here it is. By the way. You know, you know your place and so on so forth. Horrible stuff. And as a result we will have some person with glasses called Ambetkar, who will come and create the new constitution of the society.

1:14:10And that's a very logical result of improper application of this principle of varnashrama. Before I go, uh yeah, uh let me finish this story with uh story of Maharaja Bharata.

1:14:27And then before going to the second part, which starts from the 15th chapter, 16 chapter. I will uh say something also little something important.

1:14:44So uh the story of Maharaj Bharata of course everyone knows. He goes to forest, he develops affection to the deer and he dies uh by remembering the deer.

1:15:00And uh uh he's born as a deer in his next life because his last life was uh you know he was remembering at the last moment of time this deer. And therefore he became a deer.

1:15:16And but uh and that's Vaikunta Vijaya. Lord Krishna Vaikuntha, uh, He never forgets his devotee. He never forsakes his devotee. Even in this very difficult situation, He reminded this deer about his previous life.

1:15:42And this deer, even though usually the deer body is very ignorant and the consciousness is covered in this body of the deer, he remembered his past life.

1:15:54And he went exactly in the same place where he was performing austerities before. But the difference was that he found some other people, some other annunciates, and he was living near them. He didn't trust his mind.

1:16:11He said, no, no, no, no, no. You know, I developed affection to the deer in my past life. And this life I have all the facilities to develop more affection for the deer, for such deer. And in this way continue my journey.

1:16:28So he lived together with other, uh, ascetics, other rishis in this Pulaha Ashram near Gandaki River in Himalayas, where Shaligram Shilas are, uh, being worshipped.

1:16:42And he was very austere deer, he was living in the ashram. Uh, he didn't trust the seclusion life. Therefore, uh, life of seclusion.

1:16:52Therefore, Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura Prabhupāda said that, you know, if you try to do nirjana-bhajana, it's just, it's just all bogus. Don't do it. Don't do it.

1:17:05Live in the society, even if you are renunciate, you still need a society of other people, of other elevated Vaiṣṇavas. And by living in this situation, in this environment, you will be able to progress properly.

1:17:22And then of course he dies by pronouncing the name of Krishna, Krishna, this deer, which is not very common for the deer to chant the holy name, but that's the proof.

1:17:36Śrīla Jīva Gosvāmī uses this example as a proof that the holy name is transcendental. It's not that the deer, his vocal cords are not capable of producing this sound, Krishna. But nevertheless, he produced this sound.

1:17:54Why? Because this sound came upon him through him by the mercy of the Lord.

1:18:00And in a similar way, we shouldn't chant the name of Krishna by our vocal cords. No, only by the mercy of Krishna. At the last moment of our life, we will be able to say Krishna, Because the name of Krishna will descend upon us. Due to our sincerity of purpose.

Jada Bharata instructing King Rahugana

1:18:24So and then he becomes Jadabharata and there is this you know Jadabharata chapter 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, and 15.

1:18:37So many chapters, seven chapters of this fifth canto, a half of the first part of the fifth canto, is the description of Jada Bharata and his conversation with King Rahugana. And what is the essence of this conversation?

1:18:57It's exactly this what I already said: that the King Rahugana you know it's the development of what I said uh I I already mentioned it but it's development of what has been said before uh what has been said before in the previous chapters is the importance about following the rules and regulations of Varnashrama.

1:19:24But starting from this, by the instructions of Jadabharata with King Rahuguna, there will be another turn of this topic where Jadabharata will explain to King Rahugana, who is a pious king within the Varnashama system and who actually advocates normal Varnashama.

1:19:48The whole discussion initiates from the uh question of uh Maharaja Rahugana, you said that your spirit soul, uh that's okay. You said that you're not thin, you're not thick, you're not tall, you're not this, you're not that, and I am not your master, you're not my servant.

1:20:07That's fine. That's the spiritual consideration. But we live in this society. And in this society, I am a king. And you are my palanquin carrier.

1:20:20And in this society, even though the soul doesn't feel fatigue, the body still feels fatigue. And because the soul is within the body, the soul feels fatigue of the body.

1:20:33How is that your transcendental you are trying to describe this transcendental philosophy, but it doesn't seem to be practical? Let's be practical.

1:20:44And this material world, we have to be practical. It means that we have to respect this Varnasrama system. So that's what I have been saying before.

1:20:56Now we have another step in a proper direction because if it was only what has been said before, it would not be proper understanding.

1:21:08The proper understanding, yes, you follow the rules and regulations, but at the same time you have to understand that these rules and regulations are given to you only for this one purpose to develop internally and not to waste your energy into this lust.

1:21:26If you try to transgress the rules and varnaśrama, then your whole energy will be dissipated in you know in all these uh hasty activities. But if you try to follow the rules you will conserve the energy within.

1:21:43What you will do with this conserved energy which is within yourself, you will be able to use this energy for internal development.

1:21:54And this is the meaning why seven chapters in this canto are being devoted to this conversation. First, there is a conversation between Jadabharata and Maharaja Rahugana.

1:22:09Then they finish the conversation and Maharaja Parikshit looks at Śukadeva Gosvāmī and says, I didn't understand everything. Can you repeat it to me?

1:22:18Can you explain it to me in more detail what he means, all this forest of material enjoyment, this and that?

1:22:25And Śukadeva Gosvāmī starts from scratch and he repeats in a more elaborate way the instructions of Jīva Gosvāmī to King Rāhūgaṇa how to develop internally by externally following the rules and regulations.

1:22:42That's a very important part of this whole thing. Otherwise, there will be society of envy.

1:22:48Otherwise, inevitably the varna, the external form of varṇāśrama, the external skeleton of varṇāśrama system will be turned into some ugly social mechanism, which actually

1:23:04happened unfortunately here in India and therefore the Vedic culture is suffering now and therefore the Vedic culture has such a bad name among ordinary people in India, you know, because they're afraid.

1:23:22They have this, they have complete allergy to all this brāhmaṇa, vaiśya, kṣatriya and śūdra, Sanatana Dharma, all these phrases, even though it's so important uh itself.

1:23:37So before coming to the second part, when did I start? 11 o'clock.

Proper understanding of social order

1:23:45So I have to finish soon. I I will very briefly describe the second part, but before going to the second part of the fifth canto, I want to say a few words about few more words about the Varnashama system.

1:24:05Actually starting from Rūpa Gosvāmī, Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇavas were not very favorable toward varṇāśrama because varṇāśrama was always viewed as an impediment to spiritual development.

1:24:19It's only starting from Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura where he explained the proper role of varṇāśrama. That varṇāśrama is the protective covering of the internal development.

1:24:34And if the protective covering is not there, the internal development will also be very difficult.

1:24:41It's like you know, if you take a mango and you uh take off the peel of the mango, and uh you know the normal mango will stay there intact n nicely for one week. And nothing will happen with it.

1:24:55It will it will uh uh but if you take the peel out of the mango, it will become rotten very soon. It will rot very soon. So, yes, varṇa-āśrama is external, but it protects the internal development.

1:25:12And therefore, this explanation in this chapter's conversation between King Rahuguna and Jadabharta, Jadabharta teaching King Rahuguna, hearing him is so extremely important, essential for us to understand how to combine these two things.

1:25:35How to follow externally and how to develop internally at the same time.

1:25:43And what I wanted to say is that I read recently a very beautiful article about the history of Christianity, written by one Christian philosopher who is naturally very sympathetic to the Christian idea, and he explains his understanding

1:26:04why ultimately, Christianity, again, don't misquote me, I'm quoting him, failed. It didn't fail in many regards, you know, when we take the lives of elevated saints in Christianity definitely they developed something.

1:26:25But nevertheless in the historical historical from the historical point of view, it did fail because it didn't really fulfill the original purpose and the original energy was dissipated.

1:26:41And his idea is exactly this: he said that the reason for this, the cause of it, is because they didn't the Christians somehow rather were not able to create the spiritual society, the social structure which would facilitate the spiritual development. And because the social structure which would be congruence and harmoniously connected with the spiritual development was not built ultimately this whole historically there was unfortunately some degradation that took place.

1:27:30So that's a very very difficult task. And that's why Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura said varṇa-āśrama is so necessary. That's why he uh actually uh asked his son Bhakti Siddhānta Sarasvatī to do this mission.

1:27:49That's why A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda said about this. And that's why we cannot do anything about it because it's so difficult. It's really difficult.

1:27:59It's difficult to do it in a hostile environment and it's difficult to do it because there are so many misconceptions because people

1:28:10are trying to take details of varṇa-āśrama and elevate these details of varṇa-āśrama as the principles of varṇa-āśrama without understanding the basic principles. The basic principles are the basic moral values,

1:28:27which is uh uh absolutely ahimsa and honesty and uh non-violence and honesty uh and uh purity, so what is it? Truthfulness, truthfulness, nonviolence, purity, what is the fourth one? Austerity. Austerity, yeah.

1:28:56That's the pillars of this whole thing. But there are so many other principles. The cardinal compassion, for example, the cardinal moral values which are within our heart.

1:29:13And we can recognize that we follow these values by the satisfaction which we feel in the heart when we follow them.

1:29:22And we can recognize that we transgress this moral law within by the ugly feeling which we have, by the sufferings, internal sufferings which we have. I did something wrong, I shouldn't have done this. Why?

1:29:39This feeling is there. So to build varṇāśrama, actually we have we have to take all the rules of Shruti and Smriti and Puranas. But what Purāṇas are teaching us, what itihāsas are teaching us.

1:29:58The main teaching of Puranas and Itihasas in general is this cardinal moral values.

1:30:07This great moral values of compassion, of service, of humility, of austerity, of truthfulness, of nonviolence, all these things are there. Different examples are there.

1:30:28You know, Rāmāyaṇa is about this, Mahābhārata is about this. This is the cardinal laws. And when people take Dharma Shastras, Dharma Shastras are secondary.

1:30:41When people try to build varṇāśrama according to the design of Dharma Shastras neglecting these cardinal moral values, which is the basis or foundation of this moral law within from which we start, then there will be a failure.

1:31:04There will be something which is not very good. Not very good. It will be exploitation in the form of varṇāśrama.

1:31:13So, but if we build on these cardinal values which are there also in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and then try to see how the secondary rules of Varnashrama described in Dharma Shastras are applied to the modern time, to the modern capacity of human beings, according to our, you know, our really capacity, our strengths and our you know the strength of our mind, the strength of our body and everything else, then only we will be able to build this. And then only we will be able to flourish. If we will not be able to do it, then you know we will fail. We will fail. No doubt about it.

1:32:03We may not fail on a personal basis, many people will be benefited on a personal basis, but nothing will change substantially in the society. If this sort of society we will not be able to build and to show the example.

1:32:28That's a little bit it's a very controversial topic. I know that I will be condemned by many people but by saying this, but I still uh thought uh I need to say this.

1:32:40Varṇāśrama is very important, but what is the basis of Varṇāśrama? Of the moral law. It's these cardinal values, cardinal moral values which have to be established very firmly within our heart.

1:32:56That will be the stiti. That will be the proper position of the human being. Stanam. That is our place.

Cosmology of the fifth canto

1:33:04That's the firm foundation from which we can start building our life.

1:33:12So and then just very briefly because there's no time, the last uh chapters of the 10 chapters of this 5th Canto from the 16ths, 11 chapters to 26 11 chapters. They are describing the sacred geography.

1:33:40And as I said, this sacred geography is connected with the internal boundaries which we have. This is external boundaries, external levels of development, external structure.

1:33:55And the main point to understand is that we are living in the universe, which is built by the Supreme Personality of Godhead, by His will, according to the design to teach us.

1:34:13That's the place, that's the school, that's the place where where we can promote be promoted and we uh where we can be demoted or uh when we can have evolution and we can have devolution. Both things are there.

1:34:29And it's all inhabited. It has many dimensions. I'm not going to explain this multidimensional model. I don't understand it myself very clearly.

1:34:44But it definitely has more dimensions than we will be able to see with our eyes.

1:34:50According to Śukadeva Gosvāmī, there are so many planets, so many inhabitants. But it so happened that the place where we live is a very important place. It is called Karma Bhumi, the place where we can perform karma.

1:35:12It is also called Dharma Bhumi, the place where we can perform Dharma, not just to perform karma, but to perform karma according to our dharma, according to our psychophysiological nature and the laws of dharma.

1:35:29And if we perform karma according to our dharma, we will be elevated.

1:35:35And the advantage of those human beings who live on this plane is that they can perform dharma and karma, whereas inhabitants of higher and lower planes they can only enjoy the results of karma.

1:35:58We can change our situation drastically. Other souls who are either in the lower position or in the higher position, they can only enjoy or suffer.

1:36:12Whereas our middle position is very advantageous because from this middle position we can by following this internal development and externally following the rules, we can be elevated to the entirely different, completely spiritual plane of existence.

1:36:32Whereas while remaining here, we will remain and going back and forth in this 14 planetary system or within uh uh uh horizontal development. First the horizontal uh structure of the universe is explained, boom and la,

1:36:51and then the vertical structure of the universe is explained by explaining what people are doing on a 14-planetary system.

1:37:00So this whole beautiful picture is there for us to really understand that this is where where we are. And when we look up in the heaven and see all the stars we can understand yes, people are living there.

1:37:17Dhruva Mahārāja is living there and Dhruva Loka and he is serving the Lord and so many races and so many human beings or so many beings are worshiping the Lord.

1:37:32It is not just the sacred geography, not just the sacred universe, it's the universe which worships the Lord.

1:37:41The picture which is depicted in the fifth canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is that everyone in this universe is worshiping the Supreme Lord.

1:37:53In different dvīpas, in different varṣas, uh they worship the Supreme Lord in their own way, in their own capacity, according to the level of their consciousness.

1:38:05And we can also worship the Supreme Lord by following the great Acharyas, and in this way we develop our spiritual potential, the innate spiritual potential.

Descriptions of the hellish planets

1:38:20So, as I said, there's no there's no time, but also maybe it's not even so much necessary to describe all the details, I'm doing a very general overview of the whole canto so that we can understand the essence.

1:38:44What is the message of this canto? And of course the twenty-sixth chapter, the last chapter of this describes the different hellish planets. Uh sufferings which are there for those souls which don't follow the rules?

1:39:08You know the rest of the inhabitants they worship the Lord, but those who don't want to worship the Lord, no problem. There is a nice place for them too.

1:39:19They can be very absorbed in different events which are taking place there and it's not a very... It's a very exciting place. One French philosopher Voltaire was asked what he preferred, heaven or hell.

1:39:40He said that the weather in hell is better, but the company in heaven. Sorry, the weather in heaven is better, but the company is better uh is more is more exciting in hell.

1:39:54So he's probably enjoying the exciting company in hell of people. You know, we have free will, we can choose. It's not uh and we have to understand really that this is the this is not the punishment as such.

1:40:14It's a natural outcome. When we transgress the rules, we find ourselves in hell. That's simple. And if we follow the rules, we are in heaven. We don't need to wait when we go to hell or to heaven.

1:40:34We can develop this sort of conditions within and without either by obeying the rules or following the rules, obeying the nature which we have, following the nature, which is ultimately the reflection of the higher nature of God, obeying the natural laws which are there.

1:40:59So I guess that's it. I have been speaking long enough to bore yourself to death. So I probably have to finish. Thank you very much. Hare Krishna, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

1:41:17You know the the messages that we have got are very different than you just said. No one is bored to death at all. It has been very uh uplifting and we have a few questions if you do allow.

1:41:32Yes two or three good questions, you know, that have been asked both on YouTube and Zoom. So I'm gonna do that.

Answers regarding spiritual social structure

1:41:40Uh uh so first uh let's ask this question which comes from Anupama Radha Animatiji from Dubai. And the question is: Harikesa Maharaj, please accept my respectful obeisances.

1:41:59In our devotee community, there are people of different qualities as per different varṇas. Brahmanical qualities of all its members irrespective of their natural inclination.

1:42:17How do we understand this in the light of what you spoke about sticking to our boundaries? That's one part. The next. And how do we find out what Varna we belong to?

1:42:32Should we follow the rules and regulations of that particular varṇa and practice the yoga? That's question number one for the two parts.

1:42:47Sometimes the culture of varṇāśrama is called brahminical culture because irrespective of varṇa we follow the brahminical values or at least we respect the brahminical values.

1:43:07So by studying Śrīla Prabhupāda's books and studying the scriptures, we are trying to develop at least this quality: respect to brahminical values.

1:43:19We may not become philosophers, as Vrajavaliṇī Dāsī said in her comment, which I just read. We may not become philosophers, very few become philosophers, that's a fact.

1:43:39But at least people in ISKCON, they develop the respect to the philosophy, the philosophical, you know, attitude towards life. And ultimately brāhmaṇical values and spiritual values they have a lot in common.

1:44:01That's why the varṇāśrama social system is congruent with the spiritual development. Every other social system is more or less based on a different set of values.

1:44:16It may be a vaiśya set of values, commercial values, so to speak, where the money is the most, like the modern society. It's the general value system.

1:44:30And everyone, no matter who you are, you may be brāhmaṇa by birth, but if you are in this society you will be forced to adapt this value system,

1:44:41vaiśya value system. There may be some dictatorship, and in the dictatorship of whatever some kṣatriya rule system, then you know the kṣatriya system is the general system for all the people, no matter which varṇa they belong.

1:45:00So Varnashama is the social system where the Brahminical values are important for everyone, everyone respects them, no matter who they are.

1:45:14They try to develop certain Brahminical qualities to a certain extent which is not possible for everyone of course.

1:45:21But also, you know, uh this sort of general development is there, uh, but uh uh at the same time we have our nature, and therefore uh in ISKCON we unfortunately didn't develop this sort of education.

1:45:40The only education which we developed, you're right, is Brāhmaṇical education.

1:45:46But Prabhupāda did want varṇāśrama College education, different style of education, together with the core Brahminical knowledge, ABCs of spiritual life and Brāhmaṇical understanding, so to speak.

1:46:06There will be some other education which will develop other qualities according to the nature. So it's unfulfilled mission. Prabhupāda wanted it.

1:46:17It's as much unfulfilled as the whole varṇāśrama idea unfulfilled and misunderstood. Hopefully, we will be able to do it.

1:46:27Hopefully, we will have enough intelligence to do it before we disintegrate due to the varṇāśrama arguments which are there in our society. Hopefully we will figure out what what we're supposed to do.

1:46:45So what was the second part of the question? Ah, how to develop nature? How to develop how to recognize one's nature.

1:46:57See, you know there are different instruments and mechanisms, but basically you know what you're most inclined to do, you know what you're do. When you don't have too much engagement, what you would do?

1:47:15Would you read a book or would you you know I don't know. Of course, probably all of you probably will do some internet video something like this news. But astrologist can help.

1:47:32They can show you the problem with our nature is that it's nature is very much mixed. We don't have very pure natures. Very rarely can we see people with pure nature.

1:47:48When people have pure nature, they don't ask these questions. They don't ask how do I understand? They understand. There is no doubt.

1:47:55But because we have different forces, some forces pulling in this direction, some forces pulling in that direction.

1:48:02It's sometimes difficult, but still, nevertheless, we can understand the main forces and try to develop them. The point is that the nature can be developed. If we have basic nature, some certain inclination,

1:48:21inclination to learn, or inclination to teach, or inclination to worship, that's Brahminical nature, or inclination to manage, inclination to, you know, set up some systems and structures, kshatriya sort of nature, or inclination to do some business and to gain profit, then we can develop these natures by associating with those people who have strongly developed nature by taking education from them and by exercising this nature.

1:48:58That's the main point. So don't spend too much time by trying to understand the details of your nature.

1:49:07Have a very general understanding which is not difficult by defining your general inclinations and then try to develop this nature. And that will push away some secondary, so to speak, natures.

1:49:26And you know, the proof that you're doing the right thing will be satisfaction. If you do something wrong, you will not be satisfied, you will be miserable.

1:49:35If you are miserable in doing what you're doing, if you are, you know, if if you don't like your work, your job or whatever, if you hate it, try to think what you're doing wrong, maybe you're not following your nature. Thank

1:49:55you, Romapada. That was very apt and to the point to the question that Angama Radharany asked. Now we have an interesting question from YouTube and two more from uh from Zoom. So I have the last one from YouTube.

1:50:15This is a little longish, but very interesting question.

1:50:21Question is, to develop our relationship with Krishna, we practice vaidhi-bhakti. We are fully aware that Krishna is the supreme personality of Godhead with all powers and opulences, but also we know that our goal is to have an intimate relationship with the Lord like the inhabitants of Vraja, And they are not aware that Krishna is God. Because that is a hindrance for the sweet relationship.

1:50:57Therefore, there comes a switch that we are under the influence of yogamāyā gradually if we practice properly or how it works that at one point we can have this very special relationship like the inhabitants of Vrindavan in the sense, you know, how do we from vaidhi-bhakti and this, so there's a switch, if I've understood the question correctly, and also related

1:51:24to the... Yeah, it's actually not so difficult. Yeah. It's an important question. Thank you very much. So the the answer is simple.

1:51:36Why, uh, the form of bhakti which we follow is called vaidhi, because there is a certain element of fear. We do it because we have to do it because otherwise we go to hell.

1:51:50Because otherwise, you know, we will suffer this and that. So this element is there, especially in the beginning. And therefore, there is some sort of force

1:52:04applied to us which we feel sometimes we don't feel like doing this, but you know we still feel some pressure. Social pressure, you know, if we live in a temple or whatever kind of pressure is there.

1:52:21Or sometimes we feel, you know, sometimes people they they don't like to read Prabhupada's books because they feel so much pressure from the books. You know, heavy pressure. And they don't want to hear philosophy.

1:52:37You know, recently I spoke with one disciple of mine. She said, you know, I can't hear this philosophy any longer. Because she feels so pressed and guilty. So, and that's that's why it's called vaidhi.

1:52:57But the essence of vaidhi, uh, is the the bhakti, uh, whether it's vaidhi or raganuga, is the same. It is śravaṇaṁ, kīrtanaṁ, viṣṇu-smaraṇaṁ, arcanaṁ, vandanaṁ, dāsyaṁ, sakhyaṁ, ātma-nivedanam. You know, whether we follow vaidhi or we follow raganuga, we will hear. We will remember about the Lord.

1:53:23We will talk about the Lord or glorify the Lord or do kīrtana of the Lord. We will do arcana. In a different way, with a different mood, we'll do the same.

1:53:36So what happens when we do this vaidhi bhakti by being little pushed or forced into this? And at the same time we're associating with people who have taste, then gradually, gradually their taste is being reflected within our heart. As I explained, that our heart has the reflecting capacity,

1:54:07and when the heart is little cleansed due to the following rules and regulations of vaidhi-sādhana-bhakti, when the heart becomes a little more clear, it starts reflecting the taste of other people.

1:54:23First, it will reflect the taste of our guru, those in other people, then we will be able to see this bhāva in other people.

1:54:36And ultimately, we will be able to recognize the same emotions, glaring emotions while reading Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. And the emotions of the eternal inhabitants of Vraj will be reflected within our heart.

1:54:53Nitya-siddhasya nitya-siddhasya dharmasya no? Bavasya. Nitya-siddhasya bhāvasya. Prākaṭyam hṛdi sādhitaḥ. The Bhava of Nityasidas will manifest within our heart.

1:55:14Prākaṭyam hṛdi nitya-siddhasya bhāvasya prākaṭyam hṛdi sādhitaḥ. So at one point it will, and usually the stage when we're talking about switch it's not really switch, it's a gradual development.

1:55:38The more we practice vaidī-sādhana-bhakti, the more taste we develop, the more taste we develop, the more spontaneous our approach becomes, the more selfless it becomes.

1:55:51And the level of ruchi, all of a sudden very strong taste comes, but it's not our taste yet. It's the reflected taste of those elevated devotees with whom we associate.

1:56:05And from this level on it we are eligible to practice more elevated kinds of sadhana. But internally it will be completely different, it will be absolutely different ball game. Externally, it will be the same.

1:56:24We chanted before we will chant after.

1:56:29We remembered the Lord before, we read Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam before. We will read Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam after, we will remember the Lord after. It will all be the same, but internally it will be completely different.

1:56:42So it's just a question of purifying the heart by association and by following the spiritual practices, by basically association with transcendental subject matters such as holy names, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, devotees of the Lord, arcana of the Lord, or holy dhāma of the Lord.

1:57:05Hari-bol? Yes, no, I'm just pulling up the the questions from Zoom. Um now there are there's a question from Ramananda Kanay Prabhu from Baskat. This question is nowadays we see many devotees going for

1:57:32organic farming and considering it as varṇāśrama system. Is this to be considered as first step towards progressing or not, it's a good step in the right direction? I don't know if this should be the first step or not.

1:57:50You know, people may move externally, they may change the external circumstances, but if there is still some sort of envy within the heart, some sort of rivalry within the heart, then they will go I.

1:58:06I for some time lived in a farm uh in Sweden where people were trying to do some projects so to speak. It was not very successful because the community didn't really develop. The community spirit didn't develop.

1:58:28The organic farming was there. Community spirit was not there. There was no proper relationship and that's the farm is still there. It's a nice project. It's a nice project, no doubt about it.

1:58:46But it's not you can really call it varṇāśrama because there is no different social social development so to speak. So, organic farming is not the foundation of varṇāśrama. man.

1:59:06It's an important activity for people who live in varṇāśrama to do pure food because the food should be pure. It's important because when the food is pure then there is more chance that the heart will be pure.

1:59:22No doubt about it. But it's not all in all. So many people do organic farming. They don't become uh bona fide members of varṇāśrama. Thank you. Maharaj we have one more question from Rasamai Madhavi Mataji.

1:59:45And a question is uh how can we follow vānaprastha in present age, how can you follow vānaprastha in present age? What is vānaprastha?

2:00:02Let's take you know naturally you you will not be able to go to forest and you know live in a hermitage. You know you will be immediately deported from the forest,

2:00:15and the fire department will fine you for trying to light the fire in the forest. And there will be so many other problems. But what is vānaprastha?

2:00:28vānaprastha is a certain stage where people developed some sort of spirit of renunciation by performing austerities, they are trying to burn out the impressions of their sense enjoyments which they went through before.

2:00:52So austerities, the need for austerities in vānaprastha life is because while you live attached life, quote unquote, you know, you are engaged, socially engaged and you know have so many other things.

2:01:09You developed you develop a lot of negative emotions due to unwanted social interactions, so much envy, there are so much greed is there already developed, so much lust is there developed, so much anger is developed.

2:01:27All these negative emotions are there. So before the last stage of our life, which may be sannyāsa or it may be vānaprastha, we have to make a program which will purify our heart from all these negative emotions.

2:01:47That's the essence of vānaprastha life. So, what do we do to purify our heart, our consciousness from all these negative emotions.

2:01:58Otherwise, all these negative emotions, unfulfilled desires, they will surface at the moment of death and they will determine our next life. Unless we do some extra endeavors.

2:02:12So there are different programs which can be designed. Either you can, you know, go to the best way of course, to purify yourself from negative emotions is to teach others.

2:02:31You know, because naturally people have some inclination to do it when they become mature in age.

2:02:39But also, you know, you can go to holy place, you can serve the cows, you can serve the sadhus, you can serve the holy place, you can have your little flat in the holy place.

2:02:53You can also live in the same place where you are living now, but dedicate yourself completely to this sort of service, which is the real austerity: serving others, helping others, helping others to develop spiritually, whatever your inclination is.

2:03:16So that's according to my humble opinion, would be the proper vānaprastha life here. You know, in gṛhastha life you have to enjoy, you have to set your goals. These goals are not necessarily purely spiritual goals.

2:03:33You have to achieve something, you have to earn money. So many things you have to do. But you know by doing this you also create some unwanted things.

2:03:44So vānaprastha life is to purify the heart from all these unwanted things accumulated in the period of gṛhastha life.

2:03:53And the best way to do it is by serving others, serving cows, serving elders, serving helping others, you know, and doing of course it in a spiritual way, in a trying to develop other people spiritually or you know, serving the holy Dham, whatever it is.

2:04:23One last question from YouTube if you don't mind. Okay.

2:04:27Alisha Israni, and her question is: why did Caitanya Mahāprabhu reject varṇāśrama in his conversation with Rāmānanda Rai? No, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu didn't reject Varnasham in his conversation with Ramanandaroi, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu said that Varnasrama is external.

2:04:50He wanted to get the answer to his question: please quote a shloka to Ramananda which will describe the sadhya, the goal of human life, according to the scriptures. That was the exact question of Ramananda Roy.

2:05:13And when Ramananda Roy—his first attempt was— you know, he quoted this verse from Vishnu Purana, which Prabhupada quotes in the Varnasrama So the way to please the Lord is to be in Varnashama.

2:05:30And Chaitanya Mahaprabhu says, I go by him. This is external, this is not the goal. This is not the eternal and internal goal of the soul. The eternal and internal goal of the soul is to develop love. Varnashama is a form.

2:05:52Shri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu did not reject Varnashama as the form of life.

2:06:00Therefore, he accepted the verse Sthāne sthitāḥ śruti-gatām tanu-vān-manobhiḥ ye prāyeṣu ’jita jitesu ’py ati-śiṅgho ’vadyāt jīvanti te ’prā-mukharitā bhavadīya-vārtām. Sthāne sthitāḥ śruti-gatām tanu-vān-manobhiḥ. Specifically,

2:06:20it is said in this verse, according to the commentators, of course, there may be different explanations of these two words, sthāne sthitāḥ. You remain where you are, and basically where you remain in your place in the society, in your Varna, in your ashrama, not change it.

2:06:40So he rejected Varnashrama as the goal of life. And we have to be very clear, Varnasrama is not the goal in itself. It's not the spiritual goal. It's a means.

2:06:57It's an important means for us to achieve the goal. And I explained the place of this means in my whole lecture. I'm not going to repeat it.

2:07:09It may not be even the most important means, but nevertheless it's an important means or an important aspect of our life.

2:07:20But and as I said, at a certain level of spiritual development you can reject Varnasama as Rishabhadev rejected. He became Avaduta. You can reject it, no doubt about it. But only on a certain level.

2:07:40Before this level, you need this as an instrument. You know, it's like the example is given if you have a

2:07:49thorn in your foot, then you take another thorn and you take this thorn out by another thorn. So you ultimately have to take—you have the thorn inside your heart some problems, some envy, some bad qualities which are there, some bad emotions which you accumulated.

2:08:09So you take some external things So he didn't reject Varnasharma as such. He rejected it as a goal of life, but he didn't reject it because his question was about the goal of life, not about the means to achieve this goal.

2:08:33He even actually, in one sense, he rejected even sādhana-bhakti when Rāmānanda Roy quoted this verse, tyājyaḥ kṛti-viśeṣa-jñaḥ, he said yes it's okay but go further.

2:08:46So in one sense he also rejected this, even though we say this is the first step which he accepted. But he said, no, it's it's okay. He was not even particularly happy about this.

2:08:59He said, eho haya, okay, it's okay. Go further.

2:09:05Only a couple of steps further he says, eho bāhāra, this is very good. When Rāmānanda started saying about sakhya-rasa, he said, This is the first time, even when Rāmānanda Roy said about dāsya-rasa, he said, eho bāhāra. It's okay, no problem.

2:09:23No, he did say eho bāhāra, he said, eho haya. But then he said, when sakhya-rasa at first was quoted, he said, oh, this is this is Uttam, this is good. But then, you know, he said, but go further.

2:09:38So please understand this conversation with Rāmānanda very properly. He didn't reject this, but he didn't accept it as an ultimate goal. We have one or two more questions, but I wish to know. It's probably enough for today.

2:10:03Please save it for the next time. I will be happy to answer you know maybe there are some more coda questions which I didn't answer. I'll be happy to answer, but uh it's already late. I'm already almost two and a half