CC Madhya 17.133-134

Reading Caitanya-caritāmṛta verses on the name

0:00So Śrī Caitanya-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā, Chapter Seventeen, Lord Travels through Vṛndāvana, text number one hundred thirty-three and one hundred thirty-four: nāma cintāmaṇiḥ kṛṣṇaḥ

0:16caitanya-rasa-vigrahaḥ pūrṇaḥ śuddho nitya-mukto 'bhinnatvān nāma-nāminoḥ. The holy name, cintāmaṇi, is transcendentally blissful giver of all spiritual benedictions. Transcendentally blissful giver of all benedictions.

0:50Kṛṣṇaḥ. Kṛṣṇaḥ. Not different from Kṛṣṇa. Not different from Kṛṣṇa. Caitanya-rasa-vigrahaḥ. The form of all transcendental mellows. Pūrṇaḥ, complete.

1:09Śuddhaḥ, pure, pure without material contamination. Without material contamination. Nitya, eternal, eternal. Muktaḥ, muktaḥ, liberated. Abhinnatvāt, abhinna-tvāt, due to not being different. Do not be different.

1:32Nāma, of the holy name. Of the holy name. Nāminoḥ. And of the person who has the name.

1:42And the person who has the name. Translation by Śrīla Prabhupāda: The holy name of Kṛṣṇa is transcendentally blissful. It bestows all spiritual benedictions, for it is Kṛṣṇa Himself, the reservoir of all pleasure.

1:58Kṛṣṇa's name is complete and it is the form of all transcendental mellows. It is not a material name under any condition.

2:08It is no less powerful than Kṛṣṇa himself. Since Kṛṣṇa's name is not contaminated by the material qualities, there is no question of its being involved with māyā.

2:19Kṛṣṇa's name is always liberated and spiritual. It is never conditioned by the laws of material nature. It is because the name of Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa himself are identical. This is the quotation from Padma Purāṇa.

2:36Next verse: ataḥ kṛṣṇa-nāmādِه na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ sevonmukhe hi jihvādau svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ. Therefore, kṛṣṇa, of Lord Kṛṣṇa. Nāma, the holy name. Deha, the spiritual body. Vilāsa, the pastimes.

2:54Prākṛta-indriyaiḥ, by the dull senses made of matter. Grāhya, perceptible. Nahi, not. Hoya, r, svayaṁ, self-manifested. Translation:

3:06The holy name of Kṛṣṇa, his body and his pastimes cannot be understood by the blunt material senses. They are manifested independently. Purport:

3:16Since Krishna's transcendental body, name, form, qualities, pastimes and antaraṅga are all the absolute truths, they are as good as Krishna himself, Sachitananda Vigraha.

3:29As long as the living entity is conditioned by the three modes of material nature, goodness, passion and ignorance, the objects of his material senses, material form, taste, smell, sound and touch will not help him understand spiritual knowledge and bliss.

3:45Rather, these are revealed to the pure devotee. One's material name from form and qualities are certainly different from one another. In the material world there is no conception of absolute.

Transcendental nature of the holy name

3:57However, when we come to Krishna consciousness we find that there is no material difference between Krishna's body and his name's activities, and entourage.

4:09This verse is one of the very essential verses in our theology, Gaudiya Vaishnava theology, and the verse stresses the transcendental nature of the name of Krishna as the means to achieve transcendental experience and at the same time as the goal of this transcendental experience.

4:32Naman Citamani Krishna Chaitanya Rasa Vigraha. It's Chaitanya. Chaitanya means the source of living force. It's not dull. It's not material. It is something which is life giving. It's life giving substance.

4:52Namachintamani Krishna. And it's chintamani. Cintamani means that it can fulfill all your desires. All the desires can be fulfilled by the Holy Name because of its transcendental nature.

5:06It can fulfill material desires, bhukti-nāma. If you chant with material desires, your material desires will be fulfilled.

5:16It can fulfill your spiritual desires, mukti-nāma, it can give you liberation and it can give you bhakti.

5:23But the point which is made in the second verse and which Chaitanya Mahaprabhu will explain later on is that the transcendental nature of this name is not accessible by the blunt material senses.

5:38So, I will try to explain this point which is again very essential. Because ultimately, we all came here to experience something.

5:53People are coming to religious process, to religion, to religious practice, not just for philosophy.

6:03Like recently there was a survey, and in this survey, people were asked what are you seeking for, or what are you expecting from a spiritual organization or from religion. And the survey was made in America and in Germany and some other countries. And 90% or 80% of people said we're seeking for experience, for spiritual experience people are not coming to religion to be preached to.

6:34Nobody likes to be preached to. And we are not an exception in this regard. We are not coming here for preaching. Unfortunately, sometimes that's the only thing which we get. So and we have to be very clear about this.

6:55We came for spiritual experience and we have to give to people spiritual experience, real spiritual experience.

Cheap emotionalism versus genuine spiritual realization

7:03And but to get spiritual experience, some conditions have to be fulfilled. To get spiritual experience, it's not that easy and it's not that cheap.

7:17Sometimes people do come for this spiritual experience and because those so-called preachers or so-called religions know this need within the people's heart.

7:37They try to give a very cheap spiritual experience or pseudo spiritual experience which has nothing to do with spirituality, but which is just you know kind of perverted sensual experience. And so many groups are there.

7:52You know, sahajiyā is one. Definitely. It has been since time immemorial that people come to religion and there will always be people who will say, Yeah, yeah, come to us.

8:05Well, give you very quickly instant spiritual experience. You come, you jump, you roll over the ground and the tears will gush out of your eyes and you know far out.

8:19So there are this Christian group, charismatic group who are speaking in tongues. This is one kind of spiritual experience.

8:29You know, they're coming together and they're kind of by some means really, you know, agitate their senses and their mind and whatever, and all of a sudden

8:39you know they started speaking in tongues. And even if you don't speak in tongues, if you don't feel like speaking in tongues because of the social pressure, because everyone is speaking in tongues. You also start speaking different languages all of a sudden, you know. Or you force yourself to do it.

8:58And I saw some of the you know, they're so-called meetings or gatherings and it's really strange. The whole the whole scene is strange, you know.

9:07They really first agitate themselves and uh come to so-called trance very cheaply. Because if you even for example if you take

9:22the original uh story in the New Testament which describes how the disciples of Christ started speaking tongues. It's not that cheap. It's not that all of a sudden they got together and you know started speaking tongues.

9:39You know, there there was fifty days after his crucifixion and after this fifty days. Uh uh the real spiritual experience took place. All of a sudden they felt the descent of spiritual energy.

9:53And actually, this is what is being described by Rūpa Gosvāmī as well. Rūpa Gosvāmī in the Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu says that bhāva, which is the level where you can get spiritual experience, real.

10:07You know, before that, you may get something, some glimpses of spiritual experience, but the real level of spiritual experience is very high.

10:16And this level of bhāva implies that that there should be descent of spiritual energy which consists of two śaktīs, saṁvit and hlādinī śakti. It's also interesting because there are three spiritual energies.

10:30Sat, cit and ānanda, saṁvinī. But the living entity, jīva soul, is invested with all three energies because it is ultimately, sac-cid-ānanda, but in our material experience, we can only feel little glimpse

10:52of the first energy of the Lord, which is saṁvit. The energy of eternal, of eternal being, of eternal existence. Actually, every one of us has this little experience that I'm eternal, right? Nobody believes that he can die.

11:13Nobody believes it. Death does not exist in our consciousness. It's just a theoretical concept, which is has been proven by so many experiments around us, but still, within our heart, we do not believe that we die.

11:29That's exactly the point which Maharaja's tiri made. So, this experience of our eternity is already there. You know, we don't believe in death, we don't accept death as reality in our life.

11:44And that's the proof that this energy, the drop, or the little spark of first energy of the Lord which is sandinī śakti, is there in the heart already.

11:58But to get the real experience of the spiritual world, it implies revelation.

12:05and chladini shakti, or energy of knowledge, or spiritual energy of uh and chladini shakti, or energy of knowledge, or spiritual energy of uh of cognizance and the energy of bliss.

12:21So when you read these descriptions of uh disciples of Christ getting this spiritual experience it's really amazing. It's something similar of the devotees getting this experience of bhāva bhakti.

12:36You know, all these people they came and after 50 days after Christ's crucifixion, all of a sudden by the totally uh totally causeless mercy of the Lord, uh the descent took place. And uh because of this the people they achieved supernatural powers.

12:56You know the Peter he was basically illiterate uh fisherman. He was not very literate and he has never it is explained there that he has never before he was not speaking, he was a little shy, he was not eloquent speaker.

13:14All of a sudden you know he achieved so much power that you know and he wanted to speak to everyone about this revelation which took place and he climbed over to the he went to synagogue and he started speaking and you thousands of people were totally overwhelmed by the experience which he experiences and which he could convey to others.

13:37You know, the thousands of people went to get baptized on the on the spot, and they felt you know so much emotions and such an emotional, how you say this revelation within the heart that they they couldn't remain the same.

Cultivating a mood of devotional service

13:55But again, the point here which I want to try to make is that it's not cheap. And sometimes people because you know, because we like cheap things, right? You know, we don't want to pay big price.

14:10We like to get something quickly. Sometimes people they go to different religions for this instant revelation. But in this particular verses which we are reading now and uh which uh we

14:25read afterwards when there is this famous verse which will be quoted soon by Caitanya Mahāprabhu: ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ sevonmukhe hi jihvādau svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ

14:43means a sudden revelation, sudden contact with the spiritual energy when you see the Lord.

14:50When you're not theoretical anymore in your belief, in your face in God, but when you see Him face to face, when you really experience His existence, sphūrti is only coming. It's not coming grāhyaiḥ indriyaiḥ.

15:08This grāhyaiḥ indriyaiḥ. The senses which are gross. Grahi means gross. The senses which are as Śrīla Prabhupāda translates blunt. It's really blunt.

15:20And it's becoming more and more gross when our experience in this material world expands, so to speak. So it's not possible with the gross material senses.

15:30And sometimes people they do because they want spiritual experience, but they have this mistaken idea, this misconception that I should get it through my gross senses. But the senses have to be changed. That's the point.

15:49The senses have to be transformed, and we have to really give up the material senses and acquire transcendental senses to acquire real transcendental experience. And that's the crux of the issue. How to do this?

16:04What's going on? How what are the stages of this and, what we should do?

16:09And in this verse, ātataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-matir bhāvagrāhi-manīndriyaiḥ, sevonmukhe hi jihvādau, Vado, the condition is stated. The condition of the transformation of the senses is very clearly stated in this verse. Sevonmukhe.

16:28Seva means service. Unmuke means the inclination. The beginning of spiritual experience starts from the soul, and in the soul, soul has to really change the program.

16:44In our material existence, the soul, the conditioned soul has very strong program. It's there, it's in hardware. It's not even software, it's hardware. It's already in the soul. The soul wants selfish enjoyment.

17:02The soul wants to be the Lord and the Master. And this is extremely deep within the heart. Extremely deep. I want, I want. My will should be there. I want what I want. I want. I want to be the Lord and Master.

17:21I want to enjoy in this world. So, where it is said that in this verse that sevonmukhe, sevonmukhe means the inclination towards the service should be awakened within the heart.

17:35The inclination to relinquish this misconception that I'm the Lord, and to acquire this idea that I'm the servant,

17:46and my main meaning essence of life the sense of life the main meaning of my existence is to serve I am not for myself this is a very very deep concept, and we have to really really deeply understand it.

18:07Because the the boss ideas are there already in the heart. People know I'm not for myself.

18:14But at the same time, you know, when the mind uh uh starts working, they say, no, wait a second, I'm for myself, you know, I have to, I have to get, I have to get. So these two ideas they're fighting within the heart.

18:29And sevonmukhe hi jihvādau, this idea of service that I'm serving, it's actually it's it's painful for the conditioned soul. It is painful. You know, especially when you when you take it to an extreme.

18:48And actually to achieve spiritual experience, wonderful, amazing spiritual experience, you have to take it to extreme. You can get cheap experience in this world without taking it to extreme.

19:02But to get real experience you have to take it to ultimate total fanatical extreme. Like Radhanath Swami.

19:13He told me once a story from his travels when he was seeking for God, and when he was really sincerely trying to find God.

19:23So he came to one āśrama in India and this āśrama was famous because the head of this āśrama, the guru, who was the ācārya, he was famous for giving amazing spiritual experience.

19:37He had this power which he acquired that he could and this was called in this ashram knowledge. So uh you could come to this guru, to this yogi uh uh who was um ultimately Mayavadi and he would touch you.

19:55He would touch you on the head, you know if if you of course you you pay some money or whatever because you know you have to pay something. So the price should be there.

20:07So he would touch you on the head and immediately you know, you would get something really far out. You know the s the colors would change and you know the smells would change and the sounds would change.

20:22You would get such a you know intense intense sensual perception which you had never m been able uh to achieve unless uh you took some drugs before took some heroin or something like this with all this you know so

20:46and uh and this was called knowledge, this was called you go to guru, you pay little a money, you know, he gives you knowledge, and you're my goodness, you know. Isn't it good?

20:59So and he was living for some time in this āśrama with all these people who supposedly received knowledge, and all these people they were pushing him and they were telling him, why don't you go to Guru to get knowledge? You know, he's ready to give you knowledge.

21:15One problem, of course, he didn't have money, so but another problem was he was not really convinced that he needs it, that he wants it.

21:25Because he looked at this people and he didn't see any change in these people, you know, they received so-called knowledge.

21:33They received some really, you know, some far out experience which was there, uh which you can get also by taking some LSD or whatever.

21:44But at the same time they were not changed at heart. They were the same selfish egoistic human beings without any real sign of enlightenment. Because the enlightenment is something different. It's not really. it's not really again that cheap.

22:05So what is being said here, that svayam eva hi puryatāt, that this pūrti or this revelation, this descent of spiritual energy can happen and should happen in everyone's life. this experience.

22:21But svayam eva, first of all it's independent. You cannot really force it. You cannot really induce it by some artificial means. We have to understand that it should come by mercy, right?

22:36This is one and the condition for this is sevon mukhe hi jihvādau.

Shifting from material enjoyer to servant

22:43You have to change the program which is inside. Because, see, this program is very deep inside, within our heart, within the heart of every living entity. We want to enjoy.

22:56And this program basically is being transmitted to our mind. The main agent of our enjoyment in this world. From deep within, the soul is always emanating this desire: I want to enjoy. I want to enjoy myself.

23:16You know, and this desire, the soul, sorry, the mind has these receptors. The mind, he can get these waves of selfish desire which are being emanated from the soul.

23:32And the mind takes it and he says, Yeah, yeah, right, right, right, yeah, we'll do it, you know, no problem. And the mind starts because, but ultimately it's not the mind. Sometimes we have the tendency to blame the mind.

23:48The mind is bad, the mind is always, you know, the mind is, this is the mind, you know, but it's not the mind, it's we. The mind is just serving us very diligently and very faithfully.

24:02We the soul say: I want to enjoy. And the mind actually. The mind is a tricky fellow. The main enjoyment which we can get in this world is of course flattery. And the mind is the best flatterer in the world.

24:30The mind always has so many nice things to say for us. Genius! He feels this order from the soul.

24:44The soul says: I want to enjoy. The mind says: Yes, yes, yes, you are the best, you're the greatest, you are the most pious, you're the most saintly person in the world, and you're such a wonderful, wonderful creature.

24:57It's unbelievable. Why others cannot understand this? It's really, really amazing. And it's so obvious, isn't it? You know, why nobody appreciated you? Why nobody worships you?

25:11Why nobody you know it's it's really it's it's a it's a gross m it's probably because they're so grossly conditioned they cannot really see you. So this is this is what's going on and so many other things are there.

25:24But sevā-mukhe, sevā-mukhe, this inclination for seva, it's heavy.

25:32It is heavy because you know even when we come to spiritual organization, even when we come to spiritual practice, even when we try to do sadhana, we still want to do it for our own enjoyment. We chant Hare Krishna.

25:48And we chant it. And we want to enjoy the holy name. You know, like this. Especially in the modern day and age. Especially if you go to America, you know, this this word enjoy is the most common word, you know.

26:06Enjoy yourself. You know, you go to some I remember we were there recently and uh we went to a to a gas station to put gas in our car and then when we were leaving there was this fat black lady who would take the

26:23tickets you know would pay for for the gas. And when we were leaving she said enjoy your day, enjoy your day here. Right, right. What is there to enjoy? But enjoy your day. Enjoy your meal. Enjoy yourself, you know.

26:40Do this, do this. This is deep program. Very, very deep program. And when we come, you know, enjoy your kirtan, right? Enjoy your prasadam. Please enjoy, enjoy, enjoy.

26:56But there is this very wrong idea as the foundation of this whole thing. It's wrong. Like Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī was very heavy about this. He was extremely heavy because he was very uncompromising in the spirit.

27:15Once there was a story when he was with Ananta Vāsudeva. And Ananta Vāsudeva, who has become his successor, at least officially successor, He was an amazing kīrtaniya.

27:27He could sing in such a voice and in such you know with such deep emotions that people you know they would go crazy. He loved this, you know, and he was a very good kirtaniya.

27:38So once Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī came to somebody and Ananta Vasudev was with him. And Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī is also interesting. He was so strict about this. He didn't allow his disciples to enjoy kirtans.

27:54Therefore, sometimes he would consciously deliberately sank off key so that it would not sound nice so that this you know sensual enjoyment would not stand between you and God. So he was very strict.

28:16He didn't allow harmonium because you know especially in Bengal you know you you know this Kirtanese and then go and you forget about the holy name and you're this whole thing is there and you don't know what you're doing where you are and what it what is it all about.

28:33So so they came with Ananta Vasudev to somebody and the somebody exactly remember the setting, but there's somebody was a was a rich householder.

28:44And he saw Ananta Vasudev and he said, Ananta Vasudev, why don't you sing now Yasomatinandana? Yasomatinandana Braja Baranagaram and uh and Bhakti Siddhānta, he looked with a piercing look at this person.

29:00He said, you want Yasomatinandana, you want to enjoy. Yeah, Brajabara Nagara, you know, he's the Brajabara Nagara. He's the Nagara. Nagara means the enjoyer of Braj. And he said, you know, this is not good.

29:16You want to enjoy Krishna. And you have to be enjoyed.

29:23And uh and he said to Ananta Basudev, you chant Gopinat. Gopinat Mamani Vidana Shuno Dishait Durjana Sadaka Marata I'm always thusti and I'm always this and that. You know, I'm always attached to these lusty desires. And Durjana I'm so you know bad in my habits.

29:49But again, and uh so many instances were there right once they came to the temple of Jagannath in Puri, Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī with his disciples.

30:03And then when they came out from the temple, Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī asked his disciples, Did you see the Lord? And they said, Yes, yes, he's so beautiful, so nice, you know, big eyes, you know, oh Jagannath, Jagannath.

30:15He said, How you can see the Lord? You cannot see the Lord with your blunt material senses. This is not the purpose of darśana. We are not coming to see the Lord, we are coming to be seen by the Lord.

30:30It's not that we are the subject. The difference between sevā and between service and boga between service and enjoyment is that when we enjoy we are the subject. Because that's we, we experience.

30:51But we are when we are enjoyed by the Lord, we are the object.

30:56And the difference here which we have to make, which we have to adjust, the little adjustment which we have to make within our heart, is that we have to turn ourselves from the subject into an object, object of Krishna's enjoyment. And that's heavy. That's really heavy.

31:18You know, Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī said, when you're coming to the Lord, you're coming not to see Him, you are coming to be seen by Him because you are not Drashta. You are not drashtā, you are dṛṣṭa.

31:31You are not the seer and we used to be the seer. Seer means experiencer. Somebody who is experiencing all these material things.

31:43And we should change this program into become seen, you know, into from enjoyer to enjoyed, from seer to seen. And this is not easy. But this is the condition of the real spiritual experience.

31:59You will get experience, you will get amazing experience, but this is the price which you have to pay. Sevonmukhe, the price which has to start from the tongue.

32:11When we are taking prasadam, it's service. It is service. We are serving prasadam. We are not enjoying prasadam. We're serving prasadam.

32:23Anyway, whatever it is, even if we start with this enjoying mood, it's okay. But sooner or later it has to change. It has to really uh change our heart because we

32:37have to understand this, like also sometimes when we chant kīrtana we like to change melodies all the time because it's boring to have all the same melody but if you listen kīrtana with the same melody again and again and again.

Silencing material senses through chanting

32:52Then all of a sudden uh you know and if you are in this mood, if you're just listening to kīrtana with the idea, you know, yeah this is a nice melody, but you know it's too much, why doesn't he change the melody and chant something else? But if somebody is persistent and is chanting the same melody again and again and again, and you're more or less forced to surrender to the same melody of the Holy Name, then all of a sudden you know your mind uh turned off becomes turned off totally and you are with Krishna in the Holy Name and you you you you feel this amazing experience you know.

33:38He's very insistent in this point, you know, when he takes melody, one melody, and it goes on for one hour, two hours, three hours, you know, the same melody, the same melody.

33:51And first your mind revolts, your mind rebels, your mind say no, no way, you know, but I want something new. But then after some time the mind surrenders and you feel this far out, you know the

34:06same melody gives you the taste, gives you because again at that time what happened in your heart? At that time the mood changed. And because the trigger was switched, you are not in joy anymore.

34:25You are a surrendered servant of the Lord. So this is this is how it works, and this is the condition for spiritual experience.

34:33We have to understand that for the real experience, not for the cheap experience, but for real experience we have to, we have to change the program which we are so used to.

34:45We have to, and in this, uh, in this way only the experience is coming and the senses, the blunt material senses are turned off. That's another very essential condition because

35:05when we when we use our material senses and when the experience is coming through the material senses. It's the hindrance, it's the obstacle for us to see something transcendental.

35:18Again with Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati, once somebody came to him. And this is again a trick of the mind when we want to enjoy Krishna.

35:27Somebody came to him with you know big round eyes and he said, Guru Maharaj, Guru Maharaj I saw Krishna.

35:33Krishna was there on the other bank of the river, Krishna, yeah, yeah, he was blue and he had a peacock feather, you know, and I, I saw him. Did you see Krishna?

35:44Sometimes people see, especially in the very beginning, you know, when they have, they have this amazing experiences, you know, Krishna comes, or Krishna comes in their dreams or whatever. So he came.

35:57And in India, you know, people are simple and people are really, you know, they have this sahajiya tendency very strong.

36:05Like also when Caitanya Mahāprabhu was in Vrindavan, this episode was described recently in this book when the people, illiterate,

36:16ignorant people would come to him and they say, you know, Krishna, you know, Krishna came again to Vrindavan. He's dancing there on the Kalya Daha, on the lake of Kaliya.

36:25And Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, he was just laughing. He said, yeah, I said, this was just a fisherman. Who has the light there? You know this is not Krishna. Give me a break.

36:38So when somebody came to Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati and said, Guru Maharaj, I saw Krishna. And then he was there on the other bank of the river.

36:48So Guru Maharaj, Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati, he asked, did you also see māyā? You know, did you see the forest and the river and everything? Yeah, yeah, he said, yeah, the river was there, Krishna was there.

36:59He said you cannot see both because my is the back side of God. So it's from the other side you know Krista. And if you see Krishna, you cannot see Maja.

37:15So this is the mushlight kontradikter things. You can have both experiences. So, one of the conditions to have the real spiritual experiences that you have to turn off your material senses.

37:31And that's what we are trying to do when we chant Hare Kṛṣṇa actually. When we chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, this is the way to turn off material mind.

37:42Not to activate material mind, because sometimes, you know, when we I was speaking about

37:47this yesterday, sometimes when we chant Kṛṣṇa so many far out and very interesting ideas come to our mind and we think you know this is very good you know let's dwell on this. No, this is not the idea.

38:00The idea is by this name, which is not different ultimately from the Holy Name from Krishna himself, abhinnatvān abhinatvān nāma nāminoḥ.

38:12The idea is that by changing this holy name in the service mood with this inclination this is service this is what we are trying to do by chanting in the proper mood we will be able to turn off the material senses and the material mind.

38:35And in this way achieve another plane of experience. I will finish now because I don't want to speak too long. I don't want to turn off your material senses because after some time it becomes boring.

Five stages of knowledge and experience

38:59But, uh, uh, I wanted to tell one one one more important thing. There are the stages of experience or stages of knowledge. Actually when we are speaking about experience we are speaking about knowledge.

39:18We are speaking about not just theoretical knowledge but deeper experience of the heart.

39:26And it is said that there are five stages, and if we really want to get spiritual experience, we have to go through these five stages. And we have to understand how it works.

39:40The first stage is pratyaksha, the second stage is paroksha, the third stage is Aparoksha, the fourth stage is Adoksha and the fifth stage is Aprakrita.

39:52And the real spiritual experience is coming only in these two last stages. First is pratyaksha pratyaksha is obvious. Pratyaksha is this sensual experience.

40:03And sensual experience means that we want to enjoy paromaterial senses. And we experience a big problem by trying to do this.

40:14Because our desire to enjoy is coming from the soul. And soul being spiritual by nature is unlimited. Soul, even though it's a small spark, but because it's spiritual by nature, is unlimited.

40:30And because it's unlimited, the desire to enjoy is also unlimited. Did you notice this? That our desire to enjoy is totally, it has no end. But the problem is that the senses are limited because they're material.

40:46They're very, very limited. We want you know we are hungry and we want to enjoy and we you know the desire is so strong.

40:53But then such a frustration is coming when you know after few morsels we are more or less satisfied and we still you know we are satisfied physically, but we are not satisfied in the soul, you know, and we want unlimited enjoyment.

41:07Actually, this is the beginning of Vedānta-sūtra. In Vedānta-sūtra, when Baladev Vidyābhūṣaṇa is explaining this athāto, atha at o brahma-jijñāsā. Therefore, now it is the point, it is the time to ask about Brahman.

41:22And he's explaining this athāto, this words of therefore, is that therefore because you're frustrated with your sensual experience. This is one of the explanations. Why you are inquiring about Brahman?

41:35Because you're frustrated, because you are you are trying to enjoy and this is this is not enjoyment because it's limited. It's also stressed by Ṛṣabhadeva.

41:46Ṛṣabhadeva in fifth canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam he says brahma-saukhyam tv anantam brahma-saukhyam tu anantam but the brahma-saukhyam the happiness of Brahman of Spirit to But but the brahma-saukhyam the happiness of Brahman is anantam is, unlimited.

42:07And but it's exactly the same point. We want enjoyment, we want big enjoyment, but the senses are limited. Therefore people take drugs.

42:16Because in in in in this condition is changed uh material consciousness, the appearance is that the the senses are you know uh the the limitation of the senses is more. You know you experience supposedly something more but usually we're frustrated.

42:35We want to enjoy we want to enjoy sex you know but you know this is such a frustration you know you want to enjoy sex but there is no way to do it because it's so short, and there is no way to do it. And so on so forth.

42:49You know, people they they try to exploit the senses, but ultimately they're frustrated.

42:56And then Paroksha, this is another level of enjoyment or another level of experience when you try to uh experience it through your mind. And the mind is bigger, right?

43:07In the mind you can really, you know, uh uh by your physical body you can have sex only once. Well maybe twice, I don't know. I'm not an expert in this field. But but in your mind you can have it so many times you know

43:25you you you can do it all the all all day long you know by by you go to cinema. Paroxy means you experience through the mind by another by somebody else. Paroxy means indirect.

43:39Indirect means you know you get the experience through somebody else. And somebody else says, you know, this is this this is very nice and you you in your mind you're projecting this and you're trying to experience this.

43:51So this is better, but ultimately and this condition of paroxy experience is compared with the dreaming experience. Because in the dreams your physical body is not working, but your mental body, mind is working.

44:09And you know in the dreams you can you you can go to China and you can be on the moon to also... no problem. You can be everywhere. The facilities are bigger. The possibilities are much greater.

44:25But still, you know after sensual experience what do you feel? After extensive, intense sensual experience, what do you feel? You feel very sad? Yeah, you feel sad and you feel frustrated and you feel tired.

44:40What do you feel after if if the whole night you're dreaming something? What do you feel? You feel tired.

44:48And you know you go to cinema and you see cinema and ultimately, you feel tired because again this, is material thing, and again you're you're mistaken. And then there is this aparoxha.

45:00And aparoksa is the beginning of spiritual experience. Aparoxha means aporoxia is the experience of the deep sleep. You know, and that's the only experience with when you're really happy in this world.

45:13Really, you know, the real happiness in this world available to everyone is after deep sleep, you get up and you feel you know far out. It's good. Your senses are again so charged.

45:29Basically, what happens in the deep sleep, it's explained in Vedānta-sūtra, in a deep sleep, the soul gets direct experience of Brahman. To be because it's tired, the whole material experience is so tiring.

45:43We need some you know it's like a little spark. The solar like a spark. And when the spark is coming out from the fire. What happens with the spark? Ja.

45:55It's very quickly it is extinget because it doesn't have this power to maintain its own sparking naturing nature. To maintain it, one has to come back to the fire, right?

46:12So that's exactly what happens during the deep sleep. During the deep sleep the soul when the senses are cut off, when the mind are cut off, the soul is with with Krishna, with Brahman. And uh therefore you feel so good.

46:26You feel you know ah that was good, you know, I had a good sleep. So and again you try to experience it you try to extinguish your fiery nature by these material experiences. But that's okay.

46:40And that's that's still available. And that's exactly the experience which impersonalists are trying to experience through their meditation technique.

46:50This is the level of Aparoxagyan when they experience this you know undifferentiated Brahman. When the senses are cut off and the mind is cut off.

47:03Actually, if if you examine the practices which other religions have, like for example, this Buddhism, the Buddhistic practices are meant to cut off your mind. Like this Kōan. Zen Buddhism. Kōan.

47:20You are thinking about something which is really contradictory, which which doesn't make any sense. Like Kōan, you're supposed to meditate on this on the on the clap of one hand. Right?

47:33You know, but how you can clap with one hand? And you're trying to figure it out and by trying uh but this is just the trick to turn off the mind, basically, because the mind is logical.

47:47And you go to the little higher plane, which is this Aparoxagyan, Aparoxy experience when the mind is not working. Basically, the trick to afford this is just to turn off the mind.

47:59And when the mind is not working, you feel so good because in a normal life you're torn apart you're basically uh you're uh torn apart by by the mind which always wants something. So this is aparokṣa-jñāna.

48:19But then the two levels of real spiritual experiences called adhokṣaja adhokṣaja plane and aprākṛta plane.

48:27And I will not tell much about this, but adhokṣaja means the Vaikuṇṭha experience, the experience of of spiritual service in the Vaikuṇṭha mood, in the mood of reverence.

48:43And Aprākṛta means even higher experience in Vṛndāvana with Krishna. But it's interesting that it's called Aprākṛta. Prākṛta means not Prākṛta, not material. And it's uh it's very essential why it is called a prakrita.

49:03Because already on the level of Adhokṣaja, Adhokṣaja means beyond the senses. It's already spiritual. Why do we need to tell that it's not material?

49:14Only because this highest realm of spiritual experience is very much like our material experience. But it's aprākṛta.

49:23It's what is happening actually if we take dialectics, you know this plane of a paroks jnana denies material experience. And then Adhokṣaja gives you the first stage of spiritual experience in the mood of own reverence.

49:41But when you go higher, you see Krishna and Krishna is standing, guess what? You know what is this? People can't figure it out, you know, because it's so it looks so prakrita. It looks so mundane.

49:55You know, if you tell somebody, uh but this is the highest conception of God according to our philosophy. Highest conception of God is God that God tends cows, right?

50:06You go to the street and you say I know who God is and they ask you who God is? We have he is tending cows, he is he has his flute and he has his bugle and he has his friends and you know.

50:20People they they can't believe it. You know, it's it's just too much for them. It's really too much, you know. Like there is a little story from Caitanya Candrodaya Nāṭaka about Krishna and Madhu Mangal.

50:35And Madhu Mangal and Krishna, they came to Śrīmatī Rādhārāṇī. And they were hiding in the bushes, right?

50:44And Śrīmatī Rādhārāṇī came with Lalitā sakhī and with some of her girlfriends. And they wanted to worship Shiva or Surya.

50:55And they picking they want to pick flowers because Śrīmatī Rādhārāṇī said, I brought all my paraphernalia for worship, but I forgot flowers.

51:03And then Lalitā sakhī says, Oh my dear girlfriend, there is plenty of flowers in Vrindavan. Vṛndāvana is you know so many flowers are there, why don't you pick up?

51:14And Śrīmatī Rādhārāṇī she looks at her and says, Yes, yes, there are so many flowers in this forest, but I'm afraid. What are you afraid of? Oh I'm afraid of wild asses which are walking here everywhere.

51:28And Madhu Maṅgala, he's sitting there with Krishna and they heard this. And Madhu Maṅgala he gets to Krishna and he says, Krishna, did you hear what did she say?

51:39Krishna said, yes, she said that she is afraid of wild asses. Yeah, I know that you heard this, but did you understand whom he meant? Krishna said no I don't I didn't understand whom she meant.

51:52And Madhu Mangal says of course how you can understand you know because you know you're God, you're Lord of Creation and you're tending house here, you know. One has to be really dull to do it.

52:05One has to be you One has to be really foolish if you're God and you're doing this in Vrindavan. Of course you can't understand. She meant us, you know.

52:17She said by while us, she meant you and us. This is well you know and uh Madhu Mangal got really offended, you know. But the point here is that it's not a prākṛta experience, but it looks like it's prākṛta.

52:32And the main point here is that it's very I mean it's very difficult to achieve. It's high.

52:40And the tendency the Sahaja tendency would be to take it cheaply and to try to experience it through the you know through material senses as sahajiyās do.

52:53But the real point of spiritual practice is actually to transcend this plane of selfish egoistic enjoyment uh by imbibing this service mood and that's the only transformation

53:09which can take place and which should take place and we should start it from jihvādau started from from them from the tongue.

53:18Starting from the tongue means that we should start this journey to spiritual experience by chanting the holy name in the mood of service. And that's difficult. By chanting this vibration in the mood of service.

53:37And this vibration is so powerful that even if we don't do it in the mood of service, it still will sooner or later bring us to the proper destination. But we still try to do it to it.

53:48If we want to make it fast, then we have to do it properly. It means that we are serving Krishna by chanting his holy name. Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare, Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma, Rāma, Hare Hare.

54:02But still, this sound vibration is very powerful.

Transformative power of pure devotee's voice

54:06If I have two minutes, I want to tell will you give me two minutes more? Okay.

54:14So I wanted to tell a little amazing story about Prabhupāda and about the about the power of the sound vibration which is coming from the mouth of a pure devotee.

54:26You know, actually we ourselves we we are not capable of pronouncing the holy name purely and therefore our holy name doesn't you know it it it's not it's not really holy name, it's this just a shadow of holy name.

54:40And uh you know it's just nāma-ābhāsa at best, if not nāma-parādhā, it's just material sound vibration.

54:48But the power of the sound, and I was giving the seminar in Radhadesh about the power of the sound, but the power of the sound vibration coming from the mouth of pure devotees amazing, it's immense.

55:04There is one little story in this regard, and this story is told by one devotee. And he said he was a he was from some middle American state, some Michigan or whatever.

55:21Maybe not Michigan, whatever, but they, you know, he was a simple boy from a village. And in 1966, 66 or 65, whatever, he came to New York. Just for experience, you know, he was a simple teenager, maybe 16 or 17 years old.

55:40And he was, you know, he came to Manhattan, he came to Bowery. And he was walking 67, 66 probably. So he was walking along the street and then some strange person approached him. He was short and he was rather old.

55:58But he was very animated and very you know very enlightened. And this person started speaking with him. And he said, I couldn't understand one word of his speech.

56:10I you know, there was such a strange accent, you know, he was from America and he he he was not used to strange Indian accent, that was Prabhupada.

56:21So and um he said you know this person very you know uh was very enlightened and he was speaking about something I could only think which I could understand that he's speaking about something which is important to him.

56:38Which was, you know, and I could understand what it is it all about. And he was walking with me and trying to explain to me something, but I couldn't figure it out.

56:46You know, and then we came to the traffic light, and then uh, you know, and and then he said goodbye and I said goodbye to him. So but something was strange in this experience by hearing this speech of Prabhupada.

57:02He said this was, you know, it created such a deep impression upon me.

57:06I usually when you see this you you you you tend to forget about it. You because you didn't understand the word, you didn't understand what is it all about.

57:13He was just walking with him and talking with him for a few uh minutes uh in this Bowery Street in Manhattan. And then Prabhupada parted.

57:24And he parted, he went on his way, and then there was, you know, teenage experience, so many things happened in his life. But then he said something strange, you know, I felt some changes within my heart.

57:36And then I started interested in yoga, you know, and I was trying to experience

57:41yoga and you know for a cowboy from somewhere middle America it's it's strange and you know and but then then uh you know I was looking and this

57:52this kind of remembrance about this episode was there in the heart and I was going and going going around, going around. Finally, he came to Los Angeles and he came to Hare Krishna temple.

58:03And when he came to the altar of Rukmini Dvarakadish for the first time, he came to the temple, he saw picture on the altar.

58:10Hey, so this is this guy. That's him. He brought me here and he had this very clear understanding and clear you

58:22remembrance that this speech which he heard from the mouth of a pure devotee for a few seconds, you know, a few minutes, which he didn't understand, really this speech brought him ultimately to this to this temple, you know, in Los Angeles.

58:37And he came there and he started visiting the temple because it was you know m something mysterious was happening. And he was not really, you know, he was not really going to surrender himself.

58:51But then then the vote is they became real and that that happened actually s probably some eight years later or nine years later, uh the seventy, seventy-five or something like this, maybe yeah, nine years later or eight years later.

59:08And then the devotees this news was spread that Prabhupada is coming to Los Angeles and he wanted to see him again.

59:14After nine years after seeing him for a few short seconds on the street and after hearing his voice, you know, then he he kind of understands that s some force is there in my life. Now it's my life is not the same.

59:30So he comes with all the devotees to the airport and a lot of devotees, grand reception, kīrtana is going on, you know, and you know, hundreds of devotees are standing, there is a red carpet, and Prabhupada is walking.

59:44And everyone says, you know, don't bow down, you know, Prabhupada doesn't like it. You know, stand here and you know don't touch his feet.

59:52And he's somewhere down the road and he's you know probably not in the definitely done in the first row because the big shots are there with dundas and uh he doesn't have access and he's somewhere but he wants to see again.

1:00:08He wa he wants to really check whether it's this person or not. And then he says Prabhupada is walking and you know he's smiling, the garland is there, people are shouting,

1:00:17you know, Haribol, you know, Jay Śrīla Prabhupāda. And he says he comes to the place where I stand. And he stops. And he looks at me. And he looks within my heart. He looks in my eyes and I look in his eyes.

1:00:34And he says, and then all of a sudden Prabhupada says, oh you also here. Nice that you come.

1:00:46So this boy he is he was flabbergasted. He was amazed, you know, because he could imagine that he himself remembered about this, but you know, for Prabhupada, how he could remember this after having this and having this grand reception, but it means, you know, really, you know, this is how Krishna works.

1:01:06You know he said I started crying on the spot, you know, because I understood that this is, you know, this is this is God, you know, this is this is this is him. He is calling for me. He wants me.

1:01:18He wants me to achieve something. That was actually that was his spiritual experience.

1:01:24When we hear the words of a pure devotee, this is where real journey towards this realm of spiritual experience starts and therefore we have to do it again and again and again. Thank you very much.